Rejoicing In the Sabbath:

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I was thinking the same thing. One day it's partial preterism. Then its futurism with Islamic fulfillment. Then its sabbath keeping.

I'm not dogmatic. I believe that the quest for understanding truth is continual. Those who are so sold and dogmatic on any position are dangerous in my opinion. Why? Because you have all these "opinions" and each person is "betting" there soul that their's is the correct one. I'm more "rabbinical" in my approach. If you get a wealth of information leading to one conclusion, embrace it. If more information comes that would take you a different direction, take it. Never swear to understand all things. Never. Let the liars do that. lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Those words of Jesus do not refer to that. Jesus is speaking about going to a brother, and then taking two more with you if he refuses to repent. Why? Because if we do this in his name, it is like Him being there.

No. It's not because "it is like Him being there"... He IS there.

Second, if it's true in one context... going to a brother... it's true in others. Else we are burdened with having to know exactly what number a valid "gathering" of believers must be comprised of before Jesus shows up. Duh. That would be stupid. God knows that missionaries often find themselves miles from large groups of believers in hostile countries and by the grace of God find two or maybe three locally to gather with. Remember, this is a KINGDOM... the traditional "church" model is man made.

No. They need other believers than just their own family.

I disagree. Many pioneer families didn't have a chapel for miles and circuit riding preachers sometimes didn't show up in that territory but once a month. A strong family unit is truly all that's needed. After all... God might burden that family to travel somewhere where there are no Christians and their home is the only "church" they have.

If I'm wrong... give me chapter and verse about how many people it takes to gather as the church.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is OLD creation. It is a memorial of OLD creation. NEW creation is unending and involves a sabbath BEFORE we work whereas the old creation sabbath was the last day AFTER we work. There is actually a very spiritual picture involved here.

Anyway, Paul said keeping days is gone now.



Matters not, still.



What negates the day's religious validity is the fact that the day of Sabbath was a SHADOW no matter when it started. Let's not add to the word. Sabbaths are sabbaths.

No one here disagrees that the Sabbath is a shadow of a spiritual reality in Christ. We are just obeying God's commandments concerning the Sabbath because the Spirit has convicted us to embrace God's chosen day, from the beginning of creation, and the blessings of the sacred rthyms of rest.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is OLD creation. It is a memorial of OLD creation. NEW creation is unending and involves a sabbath BEFORE we work whereas the old creation sabbath was the last day AFTER we work. There is actually a very spiritual picture involved here.

Anyway, Paul said keeping days is gone now.



Matters not, still.



What negates the day's religious validity is the fact that the day of Sabbath was a SHADOW no matter when it started. Let's not add to the word. Sabbaths are sabbaths.

Not to mention what the LORD says concerning the Sabbath in the NEW creation:

Isaiah 66:21-23
21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Reverend Blume... don't you see it? It's right there.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

First of all please stop calling me "Rev". Thanks.

Now

It is done away with so far as serving its purpose to bring Israel to Christ and show what sin is. We only use it for reference sake to show sin and explain how no man could be saved by works.



That is of no consequence, since they were not KEEPING A DAY as you feel we must keep sabbath. I am just showing you they chose to have church the first day fo the week.



You are missing the forest for the trees again. Who cares when such and such happened? It's not a holy day anyway. I just showed they had church the first day of the week. We are not considering that day holy any more than the sabbath is no longer in effect as a holy day. HOLY DAYS are gone now. Gal 4:9-11.



You totally missed my point, and I am not "REV". You are incorporating legalism of sabbath day into the first day of the week as though we think the sabbath changed from saturday to sunday, when we actually claim there is NO HOLY DAY any more.

My point is that this was an event that transpired on SATURDAY night just after the SABBATH gatherings. We DON'T see SUNDAY worship here.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Think of this. The sabbath showed man working physically BEFORE he would rest. And that was demanded. It slipped right into Law since it went along with the whole system of self making self improved.

The church distinctly gathered the first day of the week.

PROVE it. The "first day of the week" gathering in Acts 20 was a Havdalah service following the Sabbath observances... and it was held on Saturday nights.

Think of the spiritual message. WORSHIP BEFORE we work. Seventh day of rest denotes work before rest. First day of WORSHIP (not rest) denotes a SPIRITUAL REST before work. And this is what the cross did! We entered into the death of Christ by the cross and walk in newness of life.

Give me this concept in chapter and verse. It's an arbitrary spiritualist interpretation. I could easily refute you in the same manner by saying, no... it should be on the seventh day. Why? Because man was FIRST in bondage to the law and works and grace is the final covenant in which we rest. Likewise we work and then enter our rest.

The first day of the week was when Christ arose. That is the day the church gathered in Acts. It spiritually depicts resurrection LIFE before we work, to actually give us the power TO WORK. First day of the week is not a sabbath so it is a strawman to say those who worship on sundays got a tradition of sabbath changed from seventh day to first day.

Yes, the first day of the week gathering seen in Acts was a Saturday night meeting. Do you meet on Saturday nights as the Apostles did? Or do you meet on Sunday mornings as Constantine demanded?

We see the resurrection power of the Lord come forth in us BEFORE we work. And that resurrection life is a SPIRITUAL REST.

Exactly... those of us who first find our rest in Christ and then feel the Spirit's leading to obey are experiencing that very work.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

First of all, Jesus said he came not to destroy, but that does not mean law still is in effect. He came not to destroy in the sense that he did not come to trash law and say it had no purpose. I already responded to what Jesus said in LUKE about not one tittle of the law passing til all be fulfilled. What Jesus said THERE that is not mentioned in Matthew is that Law was UNTIL JOHN. That means that although law would otherwise outlast heaven and earth, IT DID PASS by John's ministry! This is contrasting the power of John's ministry in contrast to the normal state of something outlasting heaven and earth.

That is not what Jesus meant. LEAST in the kingdom means he is out of there! It means he has NO HONOUR in the kingdom. It actually means he has no place in the kingdom.

The the Law as a binding covenant with the nation of Isreal was until John. The moral authority of the Law remains. Sin is still transgression of the Law.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sorry, the church broke bread and had church the first day of the week in Acts.

Yep, on Saturday night.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No. We get that. We just say Paul taught to keep NO DAYS HOLY in Gal 4:10-11. Please deal with that. Thanks!

You miss Paul's teaching on the issue.

Not true. It reads:

Galatians 4:10-11
10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

The Galatians were known as a very superstitious people. Astrology and the pagan superstitions that accomanpanied the cultural holidays was very prevalent among them. Because if you think about it.... Paul would be arguing that they not keep a calendar at all because he states not only days... but months, astrological convergences, and years. lol

We are anti CALENDAR! lol It's not Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday... I refuse to write it or set my alarm. I'm in my REST! LOL

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by The Matt

I don't know if its a norm in my church, I never asked. But sundays are spent mostly in church (9-12 and 4:30-9) so I just assumed...I personally feel like the ten commandments are in effect, I just step ahead of that with Jesus's redoing of some of them. I believe in the "just in case" type of thinking. I certainly don't think I'll go to hell for using the seventh day of the week as a day to reflect completely on Jesus.

Amen. My discovery of the Sabbath is one of personal devotion and reflection. I look at it like this... too many people ground their spirituality in that silly building with a steeple and not in their home and family. For me... the Sabbath blessing has proven to be very powerful.