Rejoicing In the Sabbath:

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Notice I said lost not hell. I agree it's a messed up mentality to only be concerned with what keeps us out of a burning hell, if there is one.

I believe that hell is a great metaphor for ignorance; being ignorant and surrounded by people with knowledge.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I can't believe this lasted 15 pages thus far.

If the Sabbath were important, then surely Paul would have mentioned it to at least some of the GENTILE churches in foreign lands where the sabbath keeping tradition of the jews was non existant. Yet Paul never tells any of those churches in his letters to keep the Sabbath out of some bondage to the OT commandments.

Its odd to me that you are so staunch in your opposition to so much tradition and pagan influenced nonsense that had become law in modern church, yet you seem oh so fine with using some of the same dishonest tactics those supporters have used in order to prop up your "pet" doctrine of sabbath keeping Aquila. They too would claim, just as you hav ethroughout this thread, that all others are just misinterpretting what the verses are really saying and claiming special revelation(you did say a page back that God "revealed" to you) and having a "secret decoder ring" that allows you to perfectly understand when the scripture is talking about God's law or Moses' law when it simply says Law.

If you feel compelled to keep Sabbath, then have at it. But to wrap it in all this pseudo theological gobbledygoop is nonsense. We esteem no day better than others. We are indeed dead to the law. The law was fulfilled once and for all. Nailed to a cross. The gentiles, which is us, were never commanded keep Sabbath according to the 10Commandments.

Such a stringent appeal for obediance to the Sabbath is peculiar. You would mock anyone claiming to be equally faithful to the tithe, and they would have just as many verses to use as you do. Yet there scripturs would be out of context, but yours just happen to all be perfectly applied right? Funnny how that works.

The tithe is never mentioned in the 10 commandments.

If you esteem no day above another then have you ever asked why all of your churches meet on Sundays?

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

...If the Sabbath were important, then surely Paul would have mentioned it to at least some of the GENTILE churches in foreign lands where the sabbath keeping tradition of the jews was non existant. Yet Paul never tells any of those churches in his letters to keep the Sabbath out of some bondage to the OT commandments...

My feeling here is that their message was Grace, the Good News. Which we are told is more important than the Sabbath keeping. They also didn't pound on any of the other Commandments; after all their message was "Grace."

I would not waste space trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking here. It is right there in Scripture, with the little note that Grace is more important. I think it will change one's standing in the Kingdom; it has already changed mine, but I trust that Grace is more important.

[Aquila]

Many don't realize that the Sabbath observance wasn't an issue of contention. Therefore it was never addressed. They didn't have to explain Sunday Mass vs. the Sabbath because Sunday Mass wasn't invented yet. There was no other context whereby they'd meet corporately unless in the daily gatherings in homes.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Many don't realize that the Sabbath observance wasn't an issue of contention. Therefore it was never addressed. They didn't have to explain Sunday Mass vs. the Sabbath because Sunday Mass wasn't invented yet. There was no other context whereby they'd meet corporately unless in the daily gatherings in homes.

Yup. I can see how it would not even occur to them to stress what to them was a given.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Yup. I can see how it would not even occur to them to stress what to them was a given.

The only reason why there is debate on the issue today is because of the Roman Catholic Church and it's institution of Sunday Mass and denouncing of the Sabbath.

[Aquila]

A wonderful book on this subject can be found and downloaded from the following link:

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/portals/...he_Sabbath.pdf

[Aquila]

Let’s review a very short history of Sabbath keeping in the Christian church (some of these are written as accusations by traditional authorities):

"The first Christian church established at Jerusalem by apostolic authority became in its doctrine and practice a model for the greater part of those founded in the first century. . . . These… were first known by the outside world as 'Nazarenes.'. . . All Christians agreed in celebrating the seventh day of the week in conformity to the Jewish converts." (History of the Christian Church, pp. 50, 51, 69).

"While the Jewish Christians of Palestine, who kept the whole Jewish law, celebrated of course all the Jewish festivals, the heathen converts observed only the Sabbath, and, in remembrance of the closing scenes of our Saviour's life, the Passover, though without the Jewish superstitions." (Church History, Apostolic Age to A.D. 70, Section 29)

"Have before thine eyes the fear of God, and always remember the ten commandments of God, - to love the one and only Lord God with all thy strength; to give no heed to idols, or any other beings, as being lifeless gods, or irrational beings or demons. Consider the manifold workmanship of God, which received its beginning through Christ. Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence; it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for the idleness of the hands." (Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 7, p. 413, 1951 edition).

"There is another sect,. . . 'Hypsistarians,' that is, worshipers of the most high God, whom they worshiped as the Jews only in one person. And they observed their Sabbaths, and used distinction of their meats, clean and unclean, though they did not regard circumcision, as Gregory Nazianzen whose father was one of the sect, gives account of them." (Antiquities of the Christian Church, Book 16, Chapter 6, Section 2).

"We also find in ancient writers frequent mention made of religious assemblies on the Saturday, or seventh day of the week, which was the Jewish Sabbath. It is not easy to tell the original of this practice, nor the reasons for it ... I consider it here only as a day of public divine service ... Athanasius, who is one of the first that mentions it says: ’They met on the Sabbath, not that they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath.’” (Antiquities of the Christian Church, Book 13, Chapter 9, Section 3)

"Likewise some meet both upon the Sabbath and upon the day after the Sabbath, as at Constantinople, and among almost all others. At Rome and Alexandria they do not. Among the Egyptians, likewise, in many cities and villages, there is also a sacred custom among all of meeting on the evening of the Sabbath, when the sacred mysteries are partaken of." (Ecclesiastical History of Sozomen, in The Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Book 7, Chapter 19).

"Centuries of the Christian era passed away before the Sunday was observed by the Christian church as the Sabbath. History does not furnish us with a single proof or indication that it was at any time so observed previous to the Sabbatical edict of Constantine in A.D. 321" (Examination of the Six Texts).

"The last day of the week was strictly kept in connection with that of the first day for a long time after the overthrow of the temple and its worship. Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church, but with a rigor and solemnity gradually diminishing." (Ancient Christianity Exemplified, Chapter 26, Section 2)

"The Paulicians, Petrobusians, Passaginians, Waldenses, Insabbatati were great Sabbath keeping bodies of Europe down to 1250 A.D." (The Sabbath of God through the Centuries, Coltheart, 1954)

"In 1310 two hundred years before Luther's theses, the Bohemian brethren constituted one-fourth of the population of Bohemia, and that they were in touch with the Waldenses who abounded in Austria, Lombardy, Bohemia, north Germany, Thuringia, Brandenburg, and Moravia. Erasmus pointed out how strictly Bohemian Waldenses kept the seventh day Sabbath." (Armitage, A History of the Baptists, pg.313)

"The Waldenses took the bible as their only rule of faith, abhorred the idolatry of the papal church, and rejected their traditions, holidays, and even Sunday, but kept the seventh-day Sabbath, and used the Apostolic mode of baptism." (Facts of Faith, Christan Edwardson, pg. 21)

Most who resist the notion of Sabbath keeping know very little of the history behind it. Many who honored the Sabbath were severely persecuted and even sentenced to death for resisting Constantine’s edict demanding Sunday be declared a day of worship throughout the empire. The Sunday service is only an established tradition because the institutional church murdered or suppressed any group of believers who dared challenge the edict demanding Sunday worship.

This is one of my favorite references:

"Have before thine eyes the fear of God, and always remember the ten commandments of God, - to love the one and only Lord God with all thy strength; to give no heed to idols, or any other beings, as being lifeless gods, or irrational beings or demons. Consider the manifold workmanship of God, which received its beginning through Christ. Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence; it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for the idleness of the hands." (Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 7, p. 413, 1951 edition).

One cannot honestly contest that setting aside Sunday exclusively for worship, at the neglect of the Sabbath, is a "biblical" or "historic" Christian practice prior to Constantine's edict in A.D. 321.

[Michael The Disciple]

Ok heres what we have.

Christians meeting on the first day of the week.

7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Acts 20:7

1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store , as God hath prospered him , that there be no gatherings when I come . 1 Cor. 16:1-2

Two times we are sepecifically told they met on the first day of the week.

Times where Christians met on the Sabbath.

______________________________________________0

Anyone trying to make the case Christians have to meet ONLY on Saturday have no backing.

Anyone who believes Sunday is the "Sabbath" has no backing.

[bbyrd009]

Seems like I remember a story about the early church meeting on Sunday, to differentiate itself from Synagogue, now that I remember. Couldn't verify it, tho. Cool.