For those who want to know...RULES at my church!

[Redenegue]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Dual Godhead... nice term I have never heard of before.

Would this mean they believe the Father and Son are two persons in the Godhead?

I suppose it goes without saying we all believe the Son was God, and the Father was God as well?

Yes, but not 2 separate persons. Trinitarians do not even believe that.

And as concerns "my Vendetta", actually I don't care much anymore, but when I saw this forum, I could not resist proving my point, that no one cares. I suppose it is just a joke for me now. A church that does not stand for its own truth, is not much of a church. And I am not angry with anyone. There was a lot of friction between Holley and me, but he is dead now, and the truth about him lives in the memories of others. I would have to say that I really hated him, but after 40 years, it is just a bad fading memory. As for others, I was and still am disappointed in them. They were friends and I thought good Christians, but when they turned their backs, just to save their own skin, I knew the truth. I have not seen them for many years, but I would still call them my friends.

And if you want evidence, ask any senior student of TBC class of 1974.
I noticed that David Smith is mentioned here, ask him. He was there, he knows. Curtis Evans has a church near Fort Worth. He knows too. Holley even wrote an article in the Herold that skirted around this issue. He did not directly say it, but laid a foundation for it.

This doctrine was apparently a derivative of a corrupted understanding of the concept of body, soul and spirit. The belief was that Jesus had a separate spirit from that of "Father" God. If you go back the original language and study this issue, you would see that the correct translation is body, soul and LIFE. When Adam was created, the body of earth was given life and he became a living soul.

Jesus had to be a completely normal man to die for our sins. A normal man is body, soul and life. Jesus had a body, he was alive, and he had the "soul" of God in him. The fullness of the Godhead. They turned Jesus into a freak with a body, soul, spirit, life, separate consciousness and who knows what else.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Redenegue

Let me ask you one question, and then I think you will have my answer.
The doctrine of a dual godhead is probably still common in Texas. Do you plan to do anything about? Does anyone? And your oneness doctrine is SOOO IMPORTANT!

For somebody who has decided that if God does not have a church on earth he doesn't have a heaven you sure seem wound up about doctrine!

I am sure there is a lot more to your story than you have shared thus far. The bitterness is palpable. From what you have posted so far you come across as someone who didn't like the playground and when you didn't get things your own way you took your ball and went home. One of those people who believe the whole world is wrong and they are right. Someone who ditches church because none of them are correct enough for them. I am 52 years old and have seen a lot of you through the years.

I pray that you Will find the tender loving part of God that can reach into your heart and give you peace and joy. It is ok to disagree and champion for your beliefs but when you do it outside of the constraints of a Christian attitude and perspective bitterness is usually the result, which is obvious here.

I say this with the kindest of heart. I don't mean to offend or anger you. I am not defending any particular doctrine you have a gripe with.

[Angel48]

Originally Posted by Redenegue

Holley taught this dual God-head doctrine for years. I know from personal experience that many students believed what he said. Oneness is the most important doctrine of your church. I would think that anyone who learned of any suggestion that there was this kind of heresy being taught in the church would immediately be up in arms to investigate. But like you, no one cares, not then, not now. I think it is only important for your church to control the length of a woman's dress and the makeup she wears. Your priorities are disgusting. Isn't it so interesting that on this board there was a big discussion about a possible split of the church over "Standards". I would think a split of the church over the God-head would make more sense. What is important? Your church is lazy, bigoted, cowardly and hypocritical. If your population of people were the ones to go to heaven, I certainly would not want to be there. Anyone who would read what you people have posted here would never think of joining your church.

Then why are you wasting your time, as such a supreme being, over anyone on this board? Sounds like sour grapes to me....

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Redenegue

. . . was teaching that the God-head was composed of God the Father and God the Son, with his own separate spirit and mind!. . .

Dunno about spirit, but, well, you mean they don't have separate minds? How could they know different things and want different things, then?

[Redenegue]

Originally Posted by CC1

For somebody who has decided that if God does not have a church on earth he doesn't have a heaven you sure seem wound up about doctrine!

I am sure there is a lot more to your story than you have shared thus far. The bitterness is palpable. From what you have posted so far you come across as someone who didn't like the playground and when you didn't get things your own way you took your ball and went home. One of those people who believe the whole world is wrong and they are right. Someone who ditches church because none of them are correct enough for them. I am 52 years old and have seen a lot of you through the years.

I pray that you Will find the tender loving part of God that can reach into your heart and give you peace and joy. It is ok to disagree and champion for your beliefs but when you do it outside of the constraints of a Christian attitude and perspective bitterness is usually the result, which is obvious here.

I say this with the kindest of heart. I don't mean to offend or anger you. I am not defending any particular doctrine you have a gripe with.

I am not offended, there is not much you could say to bother me.

I was very interested in doctrine when I was in school. In fact I still am, but do not keep up with it anymore, since it is a waste of time. I never was one to force others to do what I say. And Christians do not need to be controlled with a set of laws. That is one big failing of your church. Your laws are now more important than the truth. Bitterness does not describe me. I left church simply because no one cared, just like everyone on this forum. The only regret I really have is the wasted time.
If anything, I now have confirmation that I am correct. No one cares about the one single most important doctrine of your religion, ONE GOD. For what ever reason, lack of time, lack of interest, fear of retribution, no one will defend your most important doctrine. And so as I mentioned before, if there is no defender, there is no church, there is no god.
I am much happier now. It was so frustrating trying to defend a religion with so many failings. You think you have to look different, but in reality you need to be different. You talk about bitterness! Have you ever read this forum? God have mercy on all of you! You are exactly like the Jews were when Jesus came. Fighting over petty issues, making petty laws, and finding your own loopholes. You had better hope that Jesus does not enter one of your churches, or you might find all your pews overthrown!
And one last parting comment. MAYBE, if you really did things right, MAYBE you would really speak in tongues, instead of gibberish. I am really impressed with so many of your preachers who scream and shout the words "seek a mo sigh uh"! I would really like to know exactly what those words mean. I have heard them over and over so many times! So if you really want to impress me. Tell me where I can send a linguist who can understand what is being said in tongues in one of your churches. YOU CAN NOT DO IT! When the apostles did it, it just happened, that the foreigners there were understanding the exactly correct spoken language. You stick your head in the dirt and pretend it is real. If you are basing your redemption on tongues, you are all lost.
I have not told you one single lie.
I have criticized you, but I have given you answers.
Compare what I have said to what Jesus told the Jews.
They did not believe him either.

Well have fun. I have spent enough time here.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by AncientPaths

I live in Texas. Not common. I have a hard time believing it ever was.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Redenegue

Holley taught this dual God-head doctrine for years. I know from personal experience that many students believed what he said. Oneness is the most important doctrine of your church. I would think that anyone who learned of any suggestion that there was this kind of heresy being taught in the church would immediately be up in arms to investigate. But like you, no one cares, not then, not now. I think it is only important for your church to control the length of a woman's dress and the makeup she wears. Your priorities are disgusting. Isn't it so interesting that on this board there was a big discussion about a possible split of the church over "Standards". I would think a split of the church over the God-head would make more sense. What is important? Your church is lazy, bigoted, cowardly and hypocritical. If your population of people were the ones to go to heaven, I certainly would not want to be there. Anyone who would read what you people have posted here would never think of joining your church.

Seems like you just came here to rant about Bro. Holley, he is dead and can't defend himself. Take your hatred somewhere else.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Redenegue

I am not offended, there is not much you could say to bother me.

I was very interested in doctrine when I was in school. In fact I still am, but do not keep up with it anymore, since it is a waste of time. I never was one to force others to do what I say. And Christians do not need to be controlled with a set of laws. That is one big failing of your church. Your laws are now more important than the truth. Bitterness does not describe me. I left church simply because no one cared, just like everyone on this forum. The only regret I really have is the wasted time.
If anything, I now have confirmation that I am correct. No one cares about the one single most important doctrine of your religion, ONE GOD. For what ever reason, lack of time, lack of interest, fear of retribution, no one will defend your most important doctrine. And so as I mentioned before, if there is no defender, there is no church, there is no god.
I am much happier now. It was so frustrating trying to defend a religion with so many failings. You think you have to look different, but in reality you need to be different. You talk about bitterness! Have you ever read this forum? God have mercy on all of you! You are exactly like the Jews were when Jesus came. Fighting over petty issues, making petty laws, and finding your own loopholes. You had better hope that Jesus does not enter one of your churches, or you might find all your pews overthrown!
And one last parting comment. MAYBE, if you really did things right, MAYBE you would really speak in tongues, instead of gibberish. I am really impressed with so many of your preachers who scream and shout the words "seek a mo sigh uh"! I would really like to know exactly what those words mean. I have heard them over and over so many times! So if you really want to impress me. Tell me where I can send a linguist who can understand what is being said in tongues in one of your churches. YOU CAN NOT DO IT! When the apostles did it, it just happened, that the foreigners there were understanding the exactly correct spoken language. You stick your head in the dirt and pretend it is real. If you are basing your redemption on tongues, you are all lost.
I have not told you one single lie.
I have criticized you, but I have given you answers.
Compare what I have said to what Jesus told the Jews.
They did not believe him either.

Well have fun. I have spent enough time here.

You must have CC1 mixed up with a conservative UPC pentecostal! This forum is not what you think.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Redenegue

I am not offended, there is not much you could say to bother me.

I was very interested in doctrine when I was in school. In fact I still am, but do not keep up with it anymore, since it is a waste of time. I never was one to force others to do what I say. And Christians do not need to be controlled with a set of laws. That is one big failing of your church. Your laws are now more important than the truth. Bitterness does not describe me. I left church simply because no one cared, just like everyone on this forum. The only regret I really have is the wasted time.
If anything, I now have confirmation that I am correct. No one cares about the one single most important doctrine of your religion, ONE GOD. For what ever reason, lack of time, lack of interest, fear of retribution, no one will defend your most important doctrine. And so as I mentioned before, if there is no defender, there is no church, there is no god.
I am much happier now. It was so frustrating trying to defend a religion with so many failings. You think you have to look different, but in reality you need to be different. You talk about bitterness! Have you ever read this forum? God have mercy on all of you! You are exactly like the Jews were when Jesus came. Fighting over petty issues, making petty laws, and finding your own loopholes. You had better hope that Jesus does not enter one of your churches, or you might find all your pews overthrown!
And one last parting comment. MAYBE, if you really did things right, MAYBE you would really speak in tongues, instead of gibberish. I am really impressed with so many of your preachers who scream and shout the words "seek a mo sigh uh"! I would really like to know exactly what those words mean. I have heard them over and over so many times! So if you really want to impress me. Tell me where I can send a linguist who can understand what is being said in tongues in one of your churches. YOU CAN NOT DO IT! When the apostles did it, it just happened, that the foreigners there were understanding the exactly correct spoken language. You stick your head in the dirt and pretend it is real. If you are basing your redemption on tongues, you are all lost.
I have not told you one single lie.
I have criticized you, but I have given you answers.
Compare what I have said to what Jesus told the Jews.
They did not believe him either.

Well have fun. I have spent enough time here.

Some of your post above is going to be pretty funny to folks on here who know me because they don't apply to me. I am not UPC. I abhor screaming preaching and never understood the legalism and left it almost 30 years ago. I do believe in the importance of ministries in our live as stated in the NT and I also believe in morality and moderation. I also reject the notion that trinitarians believe in three gods as they are clearly monotheistic. There are differences in Oneness and Trinitarian views of the godhead but the question of monotheism is not one of them. I believe there can be a pretty big diversity of opinion on doctrines once you get past the essentials of believing in God, acknowledging who he is and what he sent his Son Jesus to do (be the perfect sacrifice for all of man's sins through the ages), repentance, asking God to be your savior then following Him. Of course if a person wants to follow him they will want to be identified with him in water baptism and seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit for empowerment.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

You must have CC1 mixed up with a conservative UPC pentecostal! This forum is not what you think.

LOL!! I was sure glad I wasn't drinking something when I read his post. I would have spit it out all over my keyboard I was laughing so hard. Everybody knows just how much I love old time Penetecostal screaming preaching and the legalism!