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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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Old 11-14-2011, 08:44 PM
Dedicated Mind Dedicated Mind is offline
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sin nature/death

i was thinking of children being born with a sin nature.

is the sin nature in every human, the power of death?

are sin and death synonymous, or two different things?

if we overcome sin, do we overcome death?
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2011, 08:52 PM
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Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
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Re: sin nature/death

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Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind View Post
i was thinking of children being born with a sin nature.

is the sin nature in every human, the power of death?

are sin and death synonymous, or two different things?

if we overcome sin, do we overcome death?
If we overcome sin we overcome death but not in this body. We will live forever if we overcome sin but not in this human form.

And yes, I believe that the sin nature is in every human,
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:24 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: sin nature/death

there is a connection between sin and sickness.

sickness leads to death.

This link is Watchman Nees comments on sin and sickness

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/sickness.htm

Sickness and sin
The Bible discloses a close relationship between sickness and sin. The ultimate consequence of sin is death. Sickness lies between sin and death. It is the sequel to sin and the prologue to death. If there were no sin in the world, there would be neither sickness nor death. Had not Adam sinned, sickness would not have come upon the earth: of this we can be most certain. Hence as with every other woe, sickness was ushered in by sin.

Human beings are made up of two natures: the non-corporeal and the corporeal. Both suffered from man’s fall. The spirit and soul were damaged by sin and the body was! invaded by sickness. The sin of the spirit and soul together with the sickness of the body attest that man must die.

When the Lord Jesus came to save, He not only forgave man’s sin but also healed man’s body. He saved bodies as well as souls. From the outset of His ministry He healed man’s sickness; at the conclusion of His labor He became a propitiation on the cross for man’s sins. Behold how many sick people were healed by Him during His earthly days! His hands were ever ready to touch the sick and raise them up. Judging both by what He Himself did and by the command He gave His disciples, we cannot help but see that the salvation He provides includes the healing of sickness. His is the gospel of forgiveness and healing. These two go together. The Lord Jesus saves people from sins and sicknesses that they may know the love of the Father. In reading the Gospels, the Acts, the Epistles or the Old Testament, we continually witness how healing and forgiveness run parallel to each other.

We all know Isaiah 53 forms the clearest chapter in the Old Testament on the gospel. Various places in the New Testament make reference to this particular chapter when the fulfillment of its prophecies concerning the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus is in view. “The chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed” (v.5 ASV). It tells us in unmistakable terms that both the healing of the body and the peace of the soul are accorded us. This is made even plainer when we consider the two different uses of the verb “bear”: “he bore the sin of many” (v.12) and “he has borne our griefs (Hebrew: sicknesses)” (v.4). The Lord Jesus bears our sins; He also bears our sicknesses. Because He has borne our sins, we need not bear them again; in like manner, since He has borne our sicknesses, we need no longer bear them either.* Sin has done damage to our soul and body, so the Lord Jesus saves both. He saves us from sicknesses as well as from sins. Believers today can offer praise with David: “Bless the Lord, O my soul; and all that is within me, bless his holy name! . . . Who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases” (Ps. 103.1,3). What a shame that so many Christians can utter but half a praise for they know but half a salvation. It is a loss to both God and man.

Let us note that God’s salvation would not be complete if the Lord Jesus simply forgave our sins but did not heal our sicknesses too.

*Now of course there is a difference in scope between the Lord’s bearing sins and His bearing sicknesses. This is enlarged upon in the author’s message on sickness and healing which has been included as an addendum to Chapter 2 of this Part.—Translator

How could He save our souls and yet leave our bodies to be tormented by infirmities? Did He not stress both while He was on earth? Sometimes He forgave first and then healed; at other times, just the reverse. He does according to what man is able to take in. In perusing the Gospels we find that the Lord Jesus performed more healing than any other works, because the Jews at that time seemed less able to believe in the Lord’s forgiving them than in the Lord’s healing (Matt. 9.5). Christians today, however, are precisely the opposite. In those days men believed that the Lord had power to heal sickness but they doubted His grace of forgiveness. Today’s saints believe His forgiving power and doubt His healing grace. They confess that the Lord Jesus came to save people from sin, yet ignore the fact that He is equally the Savior Who heals. Man’s unbelief divides the perfect Savior into two, though the truth remains that Christ is forever the Savior of man’s body and soul, competent to heal as well as to forgive.

In our Lord’s thought, it is not enough that a man be forgiven and not healed too. Hence, we find Him commanding, “Rise, take up your bed and go home” after His declaration to the paralytic, “Man, your sins are forgiven you” (Luke 5. 24,20). But as to ourselves, although we are people plagued by both sins and sicknesses, we count forgiveness from the Lord sufficient, leaving illness to be borne by ourselves and to be healed by other means. The Lord Jesus, however, did not want people to have to take the paralytic home still confined to a bed after his sins had been forgiven.

The Lord conceives a contrary view from us with respect to the relationship between sin and sickness. Our thought is that sin belongs to the spiritual realm, something disliked and condemned by God, whereas sickness is merely a mundane phenomenon having nothing to do with Him. On the other hand, the Lord Jesus considers both the sins of the soul and the infirmities of the body to be the works of Satan. He came “to destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3.8), therefore He casts out demons and heals sicknesses: When Peter under revelation speaks of the Lord’s healing ministry, he declares that He “went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil” (Acts 10.38). Sin and sickness are as intimately associated as are our soul and ‘body. Forgiveness and healing complement each other.
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:08 PM
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Lafon Lafon is offline
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Re: sin nature/death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind View Post
i was thinking of children being born with a sin nature.

is the sin nature in every human, the power of death?

are sin and death synonymous, or two different things?

if we overcome sin, do we overcome death?
It's all within the scope of the influence contained in Adam's "seed," which became corrupt, losing it's original immortality when God pronounced the judgment of death upon his physical body.

A study of the formation of a fetus in the womb reveals that all of the nutriments it needs to develop is received from its mother, that is, except the blood which it generates on its own. This is why the blood type of a newborn is always determined by its father, for none of the mother's blood passes through the thin membrane of the umbilical cord, hence it's origin coming from the "seed" which caused its development to begin.

And so we see that the corrupt "seed" of Adam (who is the progenitor of all mankind) has wrought death to us all (none excepted). This also enables one to recognize the manner in which the Christ child was born free of the corrupt sinful nature wrought for the rest of humanity (for its Progenitor was God), nevertheless because it's flesh derived from Mary (a descendant of the corrupt "seed" of David), then He was able to partake of the penalty of death.

There's much, much more knowledge to be acquired from a study of these matters than this synopsis provides, and which is certainly worthy of discussion (perhaps in a different thread).

Just some of my thoughts submitted for consideration of their merits.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:25 AM
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Falla39 Falla39 is offline
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Re: sin nature/death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafon View Post
It's all within the scope of the influence contained in Adam's "seed," which became corrupt, losing it's original immortality when God pronounced the judgment of death upon his physical body.

A study of the formation of a fetus in the womb reveals that all of the nutriments it needs to develop is received from its mother, that is, except the blood which it generates on its own. This is why the blood type of a newborn is always determined by its father, for none of the mother's blood passes through the thin membrane of the umbilical cord, hence it's origin coming from the "seed" which caused its development to begin.

And so we see that the corrupt "seed" of Adam (who is the progenitor of all mankind) has wrought death to us all (none excepted). This also enables one to recognize the manner in which the Christ child was born free of the corrupt sinful nature wrought for the rest of humanity (for its Progenitor was God), nevertheless because it's flesh derived from Mary (a descendant of the corrupt "seed" of David), then He was able to partake of the penalty of death.

There's much, much more knowledge to be acquired from a study of these matters than this synopsis provides, and which is certainly worthy of discussion (perhaps in a different thread).

Just some of my thoughts submitted for consideration of their merits.
And good thoughts they are, Bro. Lafon!
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:22 AM
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Lafon Lafon is offline
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Re: sin nature/death

Thanks, falla39..... time expended in examining the "generation" of the pure blood of Christ, the only acceptable token of atonement which God will accept for the sins of mankind, has been one of my most rewarding endeavors.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:15 AM
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Godsdrummer Godsdrummer is offline
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Re: sin nature/death

Ditto on Fallas statement Lafon

On this we agree.
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