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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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Old 05-15-2013, 06:19 AM
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Livelystone Livelystone is offline
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Acquiring Godly Wisdom

Because today is "Shavuot" aka Pentecost it is a good time to learn the laws needed to be on our hearts before anyone can move beyond simple milk and become qualified to teach others the things of God. One cannot learn the required knowledge foundational doctrines listed in Heb.6;1-2 without first mastering the following three parts.

I apologize for the space used but I cannot link this without going to a different Christian forum



Part One

Dan.12: 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Just before the prophet Daniel was told to cease from sharing what God was revealing to him God told him that in the days of the end there would be an increase of knowledge because many would go to and fro acquiring Godly wisdom and teaching others how to do the same.

It is true that the world is experiencing an increase of knowledge and man has accomplished far more scientifically in the last few years than the sum of progression for thousands of prior years. Unfortunately while worldly knowledge has increased spiritual knowledge has all but evaporated from the world and in particular the church. However the words of Daniel offer hope because the Bible is not concerned with worldly knowledge but only spiritual knowledge. That is the knowledge that Daniel said would be increased in the last days that are now upon us.

Other than using dictionaries that are associated with the original languages the Bible is the only place where we will search for this hidden knowledge. Even then only through listening to His Spirit and obeying His laws will we be able to understand the Word of God. Obedience to God is not an option for Christians but because the truth is no longer being taught to them the penalty for not worshipping in truth has unfortunately been added to the list of “unknown Bible mysteries” that Christians continue to remain oblivious to.

On the other hand becoming skilled with God’s way for obtaining knowledge over mans way will result in additional gifts of the spirit no longer experienced by most Christians. This is because when one becomes a Christian there is a spiritual seed deposited in them that is “Christ the seed”. However that seed will never mature and grow into a fruit baring tree of the fullness of Jesus Christ until it is fed heavenly food (the hidden manna Rev.2: 17) that may be found only in conjunction with the spirit of Christ and the manner of Bible study that I am showing to you both working together. Unfortunately at the same time that the “Christ seed” in a Christian has not been growing the seed of the first Adam that is the spirit that has been their source of life from the very beginning back when they were in their mothers womb and is forever alienated against God, has continued to grow stronger in it’s earthly nature since first feeding from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

If the above is not already enough, along with the new found knowledge that will come from learning how to apply God’s Law to God’s Word there comes a penalty. Paul endured this same penalty that you too will endure because of the resulting schisms that will come to be because true knowledge coming from the spirit of the word causes a separation between children of the spirit from the children of the flesh that in the end will cause you to be called a heretic just as it did to Paul.

Acts.24: 14: But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and the prophets.

Before anyone ever heard Paul speak his beliefs he was already being called a heretic because of the manner how Paul studied the ancient manuscripts. Unfortunately for us over the years the definition for the word heresy has changed from what it used to be. ** However simply put the word “heresy, heresies, and heretic” as defined within the old languages means “disunion by choice, or “to divide and lift up”, or “to become one who divides and separates”. In more modern terms to be called a heretic under the old definition would refer to one such as myself who in accordance with God’s laws purposely takes verses out of context to build them line upon line and precept upon precept in accordance with God’s commandment. While many remain bound to the traditions of man and refuse to accept the Laws of God for instruction, these same laws provide us with a way for all doctrine to be proven or unproven with so much confidence in the truth that in time will cause the seed that is Christ within you to take root and grow into a fruit-producing tree in the image and likeness of it’s creator. In the following scriptures Paul spoke of this confidence gained through following God’s Laws for determining suitable doctrines.

1Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.

He.6: 17: Wherein God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his council, confirmed by an oath:

18: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.


So who does Paul say these people are that will come to understand the deep things and mysteries of God? ... THOSE WHO ARE THE HEIRS OF THE PROMISE!!!!

Considering all those mighty persons of faith listed in Hebrews chapter eleven that did such mighty deeds from building the Ark to stopping the mouths of lions, that as great as they were they still did not receive the gift of the promise to be given unto those whom God’s chooses to give the promise to. However before anyone whom God chooses to become an heir of the promise does so they must first understand that to be chosen by God is not to be chosen to rule over others. Instead it means that first you need to be prepared to be able to serve the spiritual needs of others just as Jesus and the Apostles did who continued in obedience all the way unto their death.

Throughout the church one hears the cry that one must keep Gods Word “in context” lest you change the meaning and pervert the truth. The teachers who teach this doctrine mean well however they do not have a single scripture to back up their claim. These teachers who still need to be taught the truth are only applying how to obtain worldly wisdom to the scriptures in hope of gaining spiritual knowledge in the same manner that children would employ to study for a high school history exam. Unfortunately for those who choose not to heed to God’s laws, God has specifically stated that those who refuse to learn things his way would be taken, snared and fall backwards rather than being moved forward into the perfection spoken of by Paul. Just what is the perfection spoken of by Paul in Hebrews 6:1 that if God permitting we are to move forward unto? ... We find the answer to that in He.6: 19,20

He.6 19: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

20: Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


Hopefully what is registering to whomever reads this is that what is being said here is that the promise that will be given unto some is for them to posses the same soul that is the mind, will and emotions that Jesus Christ possessed that allowed God to work miracles through Him. This is the salvation that will be given to some to help them to manifest the truth as well as how those same Christians will become without sin, perfect and holy while still on earth just as Jesus has commanded us to be.

1 Peter 1:10 ( Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you

Jesus confirmed this same fact for us in Revelations

Rev.2: 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.


What is the morning star?........... Jesus is the morning star!

Re. 22:16( I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star

All of these things are to be given unto those whom are willing to take up their cross and follow Jesus on into the resurrection despite much persecution and tribulation. But what about those who say that I am wrong and the scriptures must always remain in the context that they are given to us in? Well for sure God never told anyone to leave anything in context and in truth He said just the opposite. I do not mean to imply that there is not any knowledge to be gleaned from considering chapters as a whole because at an entry level it is absolutely necessary because of the many times that the early part of the chapter will shed light on the latter part. However what I am most emphatically saying is that God has provided a specific set of guidelines for us to use to unlock Paul’s “mysteries” by applying the laws for determining the truth first given to Moses to whatever subject of the Bible that we desire to understand in both spirit and in truth.

Jer 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

The above verse is just one of many times we can see in the OT to whom the entire Bible is written to and about. However in this particular instance this is the only time of the seven times (7 is the number of divine completion) that church pastors are spoken of in a favorable light. The other six times (6 is the number of man) pastors are spoken of God is telling us that it is the fault of the pastors (church clergy) that the church no longer carries the same glory that it did when men chosen of God were at the helm as they were when the Apostles were at the head of the church.

So what will be the dividing line between the pastors who are disobedient versus ones like Jeremiah who will heed to the voice of the Lord? (Je. 17; 16) What is it that they will do that will earn them the respect of God while in the other six verses pastors as a whole are warned of the punishment due unto them? In the following verse Paul lays this out to young Timothy who like us Paul is showing him how to become a church leader worshiping the Lord in truth while teaching others to do the same.

Last edited by Livelystone; 05-15-2013 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:20 AM
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Livelystone Livelystone is offline
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Re: Acquiring Godly Wisdom

Part 2



Rightly or wrongfully dividing the Word?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Here Paul is telling Timothy to rightly divide the Word not just because it is necessary and is the only way one can learn the seven foundational doctrines of Hebrews 6; 1&2 necessary for us to know before we can be moved on into perfection, but because when the word is not correctly divided the living Word of God is made to be of “no effect”. (MK.7:13) On the other hand rightly dividing the Scriptures in accordance to the commandments of God and as summarized by the prophet Isaiah in chapter 28, brings about the “effect of the word”. So just what is the “effect” of the word of God suppose to be?

Jesus is the Word of God who is to come into our hearts as a fire that’s purpose is to cleanse and sanctify the individual in order to make their heart become the “place prepared” (Jn.14: 2,3) where father and son can be together. (Always remember that Jesus said he was in heaven while he was standing on earth and the church needs to realize that being in heaven with God is not being someplace with Him but being in a righteous relationship with Him!) This is how when Jesus said “I will baptize you with fire” will fulfill that promise to us so that the end result will be our sanctification and placement in Him and in His likeness who is the head of the Body of Christ here on earth. Understanding that allows us to understand the next words of Paul whose occupation as a “tentmaker” was not making tents of fabric but to form living tabernacles with the testimony of Jesus within them that will cause all those who are around these chosen vessels of God to be drawn to Christ just as the Apostles did in their day.

Hebrews 2:11 ( For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren


Unfortunately the Word of God is now being cut up by individuals who thinking themselves to be wise have instead committed spiritual abortion through directing others to separate certain parts of the Bible from other parts thus they are violating the commandment to compare “spiritual things with spiritual things”. They have decided for your detriment that certain passages and sections are to be used only for Jews while other parts are written to either believers or unbelievers. How many times have you heard statements like “Hebrews was written to the Jews and not to the Christians? However I say unto you pay no attention to them and follow only after the written Word of God!

In addition to that we now have “teachers” today who are wrongly dividing the word by sticking with their own instructions to keep the word “in context”. Consequently they have separated the chosen passage from the rest of the Word of God thus violating His commandment and guaranteeing that the meaning of the word will fly so far over their heads that they won’t even see it go by them.

Peter understood that the commandments of God to compare God’s Word to God’s Word (comparing spiritual things with spiritual) had to be fulfilled in order to keep false doctrines from entering the church. For that reason he gave us the following commandment in his epistle to us.

2Pe 1: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation

Here Peter is telling us that if you take a passage of scripture and leave it “in context” you are going to miss out on the prophecy included within. Dear saints of the kingdom, if you believe anything at all from me believe that the entire Bible is a prophecy. For you to be able to understand what is to come you must first be able understand what has been along with the “how and why” of all the allegories and their purpose in the scriptures. That my brothers and sisters is knowledge that can never be found out until through obedience to God you learn the secrets that God had hidden away in the scriptures.

Jesus told us that “man shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” and not just selected parts that have been determined by others to apply to us while others do not. Ironically those who use the term “pick and choose” when pointing their fingers at persons who are following God’s Laws have in fact ignored the three fingers on their own hands that are pointing right back at them simply because they have chosen to ignore the basic commandment of Jesus for us to AT ALL TIMES TO LIVE BY EVERY WORD that comes from God. Meanwhile we always need to keep in mind that whenever we are reading the Bible that God does not change and any time the written word may appear to be a contradiction from God’s Word written somewhere else, it is merely a reflection on our own limits of understanding His Word.

In the Old testament God gave Moses certain laws for determining the truth that we are to use to help us to understand His Word and these laws are based on the foundation of the testimony of two witnesses who are in agreement with each other. There are three other main points of the Law of God that MUST always be included and they are #1. No false witness is allowed to testify, #2 No man may be convicted by a single witness. # 3 No witness to the truth (or to a sin) is allowed to remain silent.

Jesus and the Apostles continually hammered away with this teaching because it is absolutely essential for gaining the knowledge contained within Paul’s message to us when he spoke of the various “mysteries” in the Bible. Consequently learning how to assimilate this knowledge in the same manner as the Apostles did is the most important step you will ever take towards becoming independent of the teachings and traditions of man. When this knowledge becomes a part of you the words of Jesus and the Apostles will no longer be hidden from you in mysteries and parables but will become the living Word of God within you. On the other hand without this knowledge no one can never move beyond the milk of the word and will never move beyond being a mere babe in Christ.

Before anyone can begin to seek out the necessary “witnesses in scripture” they must first understand that the only witness who can judge the Word of God is the Word of God! Any attempt to use the words or teachings of man about the things of God will result in Satan gaining access to how to teach the church about the Word of God.

The witnesses that we will use to determine what doctrines are suitable for the edification of God’s children are the prophets, fathers, and apostles before us who along with God’s Word that is spirit, are found between Genesis 1 and Revelation 22. These are the tutors and governors whom God has provided in order to prepare us for the time when he will move those of his choosing from being mere servants unto the perfection spoken of by Paul.

Gal. 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Heb. 6: 1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.


Just what is this perfection spoken of by Paul that is the promise of God that He will give to some people while they are still living on earth…. It is explained in Romans 8

Ro. :19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


When it came to understanding the things of God, Jesus and the Apostles were obedient to God by following His Law for determining the truth just as they were first given to Moses. Of course Jesus at the age of twelve (twelve is the number representing divine authority) was already going about His Fathers business because by His birthright He understood all that His Father and other tutors had taught Him. However you now have this same birthright given unto you through the Holy Spirit that was given unto you at Pentecost.

On the other hand the Apostle Paul had the distinct advantage of being raised in the law having learned it from early on in life underneath the great teacher/rabbi Gamaliel. Then in addition to that he was given revelations during an out of body experience that took him into the third heaven to hear things that were for his edification but were “unlawful” to be repeated in his teachings because by him being alone before God he did not have the necessary second witness to repeat what he had been told.

God saw fit to separate Paul from the teachings of that time in order to learn wisdom straight from the mouth of God. Consequently Paul exhorts us in 1st Cor. to do as He did. For us what must remain first and foremost in our minds is that we must do just as Paul did and use God’s precepts (laws and commandments) as the only manner acceptable to God for us to learn spiritual wisdom worthy of our calling.

1st Cor. 2: 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


The mind of Christ is ALWAYS in obedience to the Laws of God and there are some whom having followed after the mind of Christ understand the teaching being presented to you here. Consequently they are qualified to teach others about the things of God concerning what has been and what will be just as the Apostles did. To them the signs and wonders of an awesome God along with answered prayer are not out of the ordinary. However for the most part the church remains ignorant of what the difference is between them and the Apostles. In the above quoted verses Paul spoke of himself and the other Apostles having the mind of Christ but then to the church he turned and said “Let this mind that is in Christ Jesus be in you”. (Phi 2:5) That verse confirms that there was a significant difference between the Apostles and the members of the church whom they were speaking to. The Apostles through the mind of Christ worked signs and wonders just as Jesus Christ did versus Christians who had just recently come to Christ were only witnesses to the works of the Apostles. Consequently Christians being taught that they have the mind of Christ but who are not exhibiting signs of apostolic authority are being taught in error by those who still need to be taught.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:21 AM
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Livelystone Livelystone is offline
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Re: Acquiring Godly Wisdom

Conclusion




When Paul said to compare spiritual things with spiritual he was telling us to compare Gods Word with Gods Word in order to confirm through God’s Holy Word that we have been properly instructed of the message contained within it. Gods Word is spirit and Solomon who was the wisest man who has ever lived understood this manner of study as well as the rewards for doing so and spoke of it in his writings.

Prov.25: 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

11. A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.


In the above verses the words “thing and matter’ in verse 2 as well as “word" in verse 11 are all different English translations of the same Hebrew word “dabar” which means “word”. However as it is used here in Proverbs means it is a “spiritual word” or better yet a “word from God”. In the verses quoted above we are told that God has hidden his rich meanings just as Jesus spoke in parables to keep things hidden from the masses. However to those who will become His kings on earth (in the kingdom of Heaven on earth) they will search those things out in the scriptures and will acquire the aforementioned hidden “concealed matters” (knowledge of God’s word) as the Holy Written Word of God becomes part of them just as is did within the Apostles.


A good example of just how much the written word can cause a man to become in the image and likeness of Jesus is found in Rev.19 where the Apostle John who personally knew Jesus speaks with whom he thinks is Jesus in his out of body experience but is then told that whom he is about to worship is one of his fellow apostles who has completed the transformation and now appears to John just as Jesus did who was the Word made flesh.

Re.1:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Understanding the laws as witnesses and steps to build a case for the truth is not difficult once a person learns to trust in God’s Law rather than those things that they have already been taught. In my next sequence of paragraphs I am going to “translate them” by putting them in words that can be related to in today’s English language

#1 There shall be no false witness. This is simple to understand because anyone who would say anything contrary to what God says cannot be counted worthy of obedience or to be used for an example to determine doctrine from. Simply put if you use a verse that is intended by God to describe one thing you cannot use it to describe something different.

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

#2 The 2nd step is that a single witness cannot convict someone and that you must have at least two witnesses. Those laws are found in the following scriptures.

Deut. 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Deut. 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Num. 35:30 Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person [to cause him] to die.


The same law(s) being spoken and put into use in the NT language are as follows

Mt.18: 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2nd Cor. 13: 1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

He.10: 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

2Pe 1: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation


#3 Finally and most important is that no applicable witness is allowed to remain silent… What that means is that if there is a verse that is relative to the doctrine or theory under discussion it cannot be overlooked without committing a sin……… This is where there is no substitute for knowing the scriptures so that no witness may go unnoticed. This is the safety clause that will keep you from making any errors as well as protect you from believing what someone else is saying while they are giving you their version of the written Word of God. However without you knowing the Bible backwards and forwards this safety net law will not be able to work for you as God has intended it to work. There is no excuse and you MUST learn the scriptures from one end unto the other. Until you can find yourself asking God about something and then be able to hear Him telling you where in the Bible His answer is you still have a ways to go. However have patience because if you continue on in His Word as I have laid out for you in this Bible study on how to search for the truth of any doctrine, what I have just said will come to past.

Lev.5: 1 And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity.

The Pharisees accused Paul of heresy because they had remained blind to the method of obtaining knowledge as taught by God. The Apostle Peter realized that this would become a problem for the future church and prophesied of it in the following verses.

2nd Pet.3: 15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

What we have discussed so far is critical for understanding and the benefits for grasping this teaching as well as the penalty for failing to understand it is laid out for us in Isaiah 28. The Apostle Paul became enlightened to what Isaiah meant through learning the laws for determining the truth as given to Moses. Paul understood that the words of different authors of the scriptures were to be used for our witnesses and then made subject to all the laws for determining the truth.

Isa. 28: 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; (precepts are God’s laws) line upon line, (lines are verses written in the bible) line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (“here and there” is the same as “to and fro” spoken of by Daniel in the beginning of this study)

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. (The definition for stammering lips is the time taken between different words coming forth from God as He gave them to His prophets)

12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

There is no other way to come to understand the knowledge of the mysteries that Paul spoke of in the Bible other than the method just explained to you. After all Paul was the first to come to this knowledge and then from him and through personal experiences the others learned of it. In Acts Peter received the revelation (from the vision when he was told that it was ok to eat animals that he had previously thought were unclean) that God who does not change who gave the dietary laws of meat and drink to the Jews was in fact giving to the Christians laws to help us understand words concerning certain animals, meats and drink that are woven into the scriptures that are our “spiritual food”! This is what makes up some of the “hidden manna from heaven” that the seed that is Christ in us needs to be fed to enable it to grow from the seed of the Holy Spirit into a fruit-baring tree in the image and likeness of Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:18_ The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Col 1:27_ To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The Bible is to be the “living word” within your heart and as the Bible says you now have put before you the way of life and truth that is yours for the taking rather than remaining in the darkness that you have been taught in. The truth should always be sought in the same manner that it was written, here a little and there a little as God spoke through those whose lives covered a time span of some four thousand years. Only then can what is to come be understood and the blessings of comprehending the Book of Revelations be realized.

[I]Rev 1:3 Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.
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