Dear Kansas Preacher, - Page 8

mizpeh · #71 09-30-2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph

The bolded quote is where I think some of the problem lies. Many have looked at the TV prohibition as a human based principle when in fact it was put in place as an answer to protect the saints from erosion of Godly principles which were coming under attack through this medium. The church has always had the right to establish morality/moderation based upon current sinfulness of society as a whole.

The men who put the TV prohibition in place did so with prayer and a realization of its impact on the average person who would be impacted by its (TV) influence. It was not based on man made principle but rather to protect a Godly principle. Maybe it could be said mans rule placed to maintain Godly principle.

Maybe they drew the line on TV too narrowly and without giving the laity the respect to be able to think for themselves and allow the Holy Spirit to convict. They also didn't consider that EVERYTHING on TV isn't evil and sinful. Many non Christians would agree a lot of the things on TV are morally distasteful and wrong but some aren't. Why ban the whole media?

Blubayou · #72 09-30-2007, 07:50 AM

KP - I have not read this entire thread- but I do understand your grief in leaving something you have been a part of for 35 years. I walked down that road when I left my church that I had been a part of for 37 years. Sometimes, one must make decisions that uphold your convictions and integrity. The best advice I can give you is not to go it alone. You can be very vulnerable at this time. Stay prayerful, and focus on the goal. Attach yourself to God and friends that have a firm foundation.

Sister Alvear · #73 09-30-2007, 08:09 AM

He and He alone deserves our loyality...For too long there was the mindset the UPC is God´s greatest voice and if you don´t belong something is wrong in yor life...I KNOW I faced it many times...However I have just keep my loyality to the One that called...
I never told my children about all those kinds of things when they were growing up...UPC, AMF, ALJC CIA or FBI...lol...
When will we ever grow up and do the REAL work of God? Billions of lost people out there my friends...

Kansas Preacher · #74 09-30-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

Kansas Preacher,

Regardless of where you land (GIB or in the new conservative org. that will spring up with the help of the Western District ultra cons) I still plan on looking you up to say hello if I ever make it back to Kansas.

Coonskinner speaks very highly of you.

Please do. I would be honored.

Kansas Preacher · #75 09-30-2007, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blubayou

KP - I have not read this entire thread- but I do understand your grief in leaving something you have been a part of for 35 years. I walked down that road when I left my church that I had been a part of for 37 years. Sometimes, one must make decisions that uphold your convictions and integrity. The best advice I can give you is not to go it alone. You can be very vulnerable at this time. Stay prayerful, and focus on the goal. Attach yourself to God and friends that have a firm foundation.

Thank you. That is exactly what I have done, and will continue to do.

#76 09-30-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

Perhaps when the dust settles this will be best for everyone involved as you can't have an organization being pulled in two different directions.

Those who freak out at image magnification on video screens at conferences and the thought of utilizing technology in outreach have been unhappy for a very long time (as Kansas Preacher says he has been and I am sure many more).

The Kansas contingent of UPC has been so conservative he will be the second DS in modern times to go from heading up the UPC in his district / state to ditching it.

If the UPC is smart they will recruit some moderates to go into Kansas and start Home Missions churches in the major urban areas and larger towns to build a UPC presence there that will be moderate enough to not be ditching the Mothership every few years because they think it is too lib.

I find it ironic and rather funny that Kansas Preacher has stated that the previous bunch that left don't have much to do with him because he didn't leave when they did. The ultra cons don't even get along with each other!

I am sorry that you find brethren whom are having conflicts "rather funny" That is sad.

Sister Alvear · #77 09-30-2007, 08:27 AM

no matter where we go there will be conflicts. My motto has alwasy been preach what you live and live what you preach.

I know many many serious problems among the ultra cons too! As an old mother that has stood back and watched the scene of life among the UPC/AMF/ INDEPENDENTS and whatever I have learned that the human nature is all alike...
If it is not one issue it is another...the cycle that knows no end...
I chose just to work for my Savior and not become involved with politics...

and I am glad my husband is of the same opinion...God knows WHO to join together...He hates politics...

#78 09-30-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDylan

One major problem is that just about every little thing divides conservatives... i.e. Christmas trees, fall parties, use of video and internet.... slits in the skirts, chopsticks in the hair, short-sleeves/long-sleeves.... hairbows, brown or colored stockings, colored or white shirts on the platform, the list goes on and on...

But little things don't divide the libs! You know they do. Look at how many have left over the years because things wouldn't loosen up for them. Your statement can be said for libs or cons.

Brett Prince · #79 09-30-2007, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

I of course, didn't really have you in mind, B.D. I was just throwing a thought out there. And, no to that last question.

What I have seen is that there are people who actually want to feel "offended" when they are around other Apostolics. They seem to get a spiritual high by saying, "Don't stand near me for I am holier than thou...." These are the ones I had in mind. They want to be mad and offended all the time.

Once at a Youth Camp we had a musical group that was sing after the kids all had prayed around a bon fire outside. It was one of those "We're out after curfew but that's okay...." kinds of things. Going through the choruses they got to "Stand by Me." This was about the time that a movie of that name had come out- I never saw the movie but I was aware that a lot of kids liked the song. "Whatever," I thought. At the time I actually thought that the song itself was based upon an old "Negro Spiritual" like "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" and others. A couple of boys from a new preacher's family came to me and immediately protested. "That's not a Christian song!" and all that. Based upon the way that they were raised, their parents actually rewarded them when they showed such antagonism.

I observe people simply get off on behaving like that. By putting other people down they seem to think that they are earning "merits" in the Kingdom of God. Sort of like "points to get out of Purgatory." Run down the camp preacher- you get points. Run down the NAYC and you get points. Slam UPC leaders and you get points. He with the most points wins God's favor.

This same spirit was prevalent in a certain group that Jesus rebuked often as he preached and ministered.

He didn't rebuke them for how they lived, but for their attitude, arrogance, and pride.

chaotic_resolve · #80 09-30-2007, 09:26 AM

KP -

They say leaving the church or organization doesn't happen overnight. It's a process that's planned out and takes time. While you're not leaving the church, you have planned on leaving the organization for a while now. It started months, perhaps even up to years, before now. When you resigned from being the Kansas DS, many said it was only a matter of time before you left. If I remember correctly, both you and CS firmly denied this. Looks as though they were right.

I hope you receive the same honor and respect you gave to the men who left the organization in '92 over the affirmation statement. I don't consider anyone who is leaving now any more a man of character, integrity or conviction than those who left then, though I realize that they ('92 exitees) were widely regarded as compromisers and charasmatics and the group leaving now is said to be men of honor and conviction.

The AS changed the makeup of the UPC much more than this tv resolution. The AS was a blatant requirement for all to abide by, while the tv resolution changes absolutely nothing for any pastor that doesn't want to use it.

I stated before, the passage of this resolution is much like the dress standards in the UPCI. Every church is different, yet that doesn't stop us from getting together and worshipping God because, while our dress standards may be different, our salvation is the same.

While you have planned your exit for a while now, I believe it's still far too early to leave the organization because of the passage of this vote.

You mentioned just allowing your dues to expire in order to leave the organization. In an earlier post I stated that doing such was a weak way to go. I don't mean to disrespect you, but the method in which you're leaving.

By allowing the card to expire through not paying dues, it relieves you of having to hand in your card and identify yourself as leaving the UPC. Instead, it's the UPC who takes your license because of non-payment of dues.

Understand where I'm going with this?

So instead of it being on record that you handed in your card and left the organization, what will be on record is that the UPC pulled your license because of non-payment of dues. In effect, the UPC - not you - is to blame for your leaving the organization.

Sure it's easier to go out that way - looks better for you too. I believe it's a little weak for such a man of your stature. And while we disagree on many things, I had believed you to be better than this.

God bless you and your family. I wish you the best in years to come.