At the end of the day, if voting for Republicans is a vote for war, then I choose war.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
You can blow me off if you want to , but its been documented. Massacares of civilians, rape, dismemberment, torture. I couldn't have cared less about WMD's. The country was going down and the people wanted him out, for that opinion they were slaughtered. On a side note, Im for going into Darfur too. But there is no difference.
Then the Iraqi people should have done it.
WHY LIE about our intents for war against Iraq?
There is a HUGE difference. Iraq had a strong government and was stable.
Sudan has a weak government and has not been stable for a long time.
Iraq is more civilized, Sudan well it is still a 3rd world country and seems like it will be for a very long time to come.
With these conditions in mind, the brutality in Iraq vs the brutality in Darfur could not have occurred on the same level.
Scotty, I've not run into anyone who attempts to make the comparison of Iraq to Darfur as far as brutality.
Not diminishing what the Iraqi's went through, but they did have the framework by which they could attempt to overthrow their centralized government if they wanted to.
In Sudan, who were they going to overthrow, resist-- their neighbor or the people from the next village over?
Iraqi's have neighbors with civilized militaries and intel ops-- it would have not been impossible for the Iraqi civillians to get them involved.
Sudan's neighbors?
Iraqi's were never helpless.
Sudanese?
The situations leading up to the maasacres are different.
The reasons behind the massacres are different.
The positions of the people involved in the violence are different.
The volume of causalities and the collective effects on their societies are different.
Your comparison of Iraq to Darfur is terribly flawed.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 11-01-2010 at 04:40 PM.
JD - so do you believe the title of this thread is true?
I still think DM was just flame throwing.
I don't think that even he believes it.
If you're asking if I think that in our current political environment if the Republicans are more prone to war than the Democrats, then my answer would be yes.
Here is the caveat: most of the time, wars that Americans have become involved with are just. Republicans are not as hungry for war as the Democrats long for a peace that risks an unengaged America in most of the nonsense occuring around the world at any given time.
(The Dems who called for action in Darfur were motivated out of the perception of pure hypocrisy on America's part in letting those attrocities happen.)
The recent Iraq war however was not a just war. Can anyone think of another war that America has engaged within the last 100 years that wasn't a just war? Besides the recent Iraq war, I can't think of any.
If the US imposed strong sanctions on Iran and it led to war, then war with Iran would be a just war.
Hands down, McCain is more apt to impose stronger sanctions faster on Iran than Obama. This is rooted in their prejudicial views of America's involvement in the Middle East, which is rooted in their fundamentally different views of America's role in the world (Republican vs Democrat).
Heated rhetoric that inflames relations instead of seeks common ground is more likely to be heard from a Republican than a Democrat. Proof of the at is seen this Administration's approach to Iran vs the previous Administration's approach to the infamous, "Axis of Evil."
Now I don't think that any Democrat would hesitate if war was the only option. However the Republicans would come to that conclusion much quicker-- especially if there is already a "war agenda" in the back of their minds.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 11-01-2010 at 04:41 PM.
JD - first to address your issue that the Iraqi people should have done it. We had a great deal of help during the American Revolution from the French. We would have had a much tougher time of it, without their help. I would have hoped that this would have been our model for Iraq.
However, let me say that the last few years have convinced me that there is something inherent in Islam that tends to favor a strong individual leader, basically a dictatorship.
This may be only where they are at this moment in time for them, however. Turkey is the only exception to this rule, currently, and they are moving closer to this.
Now, to shift gears a little.
Why do you believe that we went to war with Iraq?
Why do you believe that we went to war with Afghanistan?
JD - first to address your issue that the Iraqi people should have done it. We had a great deal of help during the American Revolution from the French. We would have had a much tougher time of it, without their help. I would have hoped that this would have been our model for Iraq.
However, let me say that the last few years have convinced me that there is something inherent in Islam that tends to favor a strong individual leader, basically a dictatorship.
This may be only where they are at this moment in time for them, however. Turkey is the only exception to this rule, currently, and they are moving closer to this.
Now, to shift gears a little.
Why do you believe that we went to war with Iraq?
Why do you believe that we went to war with Afghanistan?
Oh yeah-- how many French Soldiers died for the sole purpose of helping America break away from Brittain?
We went to war in Iraq because some of the people in GWB's administration wanted us to go to war with Iraq.
We went to war with Afghanistan because the Taliban provided safe harbor to the people who started a war with us, on 09/10/01. 09/11 was much more bloodier and it happened on our soil, but the only Afghan leader that didn't bow to the Taliban was assasinated on 09/10/2001.
Massoud was supported by some in the American government, but NOT THE CIA UNFORTUNATELY.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
JD - no historian can give you a good number of French killed during the American Revolution. Estimates for how many French regulars were on American soil range from 8k to 10k. They did fight in three major battles, as well as minor battles, so it is known that there were casualties among them.
If you doubt me, Google is a wonderful search engine.
I do not want to turn this into 20 questions, but I really wonder why you think some people in the GWB administration wanted to go to war with Iraq.
Was it that some of them actually thought there were WMD's and that Iraq was a threat to the safety and security of the United States?
What, in your opinion, was the main reason that we went to war with Iraq?
We didn't and won't ever go into Sudan because it was never ever ever about freeing oppressed people. That's just a story to put a smile on the war especially when we couldn't find those WMDs and there never was any proof of WMDs in Iraq and moved, just speculation.
The Irony is there is a bigger nutjob in Iran and now their army is more sophisticated than Iraqs was and they may have or are building nukes
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There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
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Then the Iraqi people should have done it. This is a really sad statement. Why don't the people of Darfur take care of themselves ?
WHY LIE about our intents for war against Iraq? What lie ? Im waiting.
There is a HUGE difference. Iraq had a strong government and was stable. Wrong again. Saddam HAD Iraq's government and country stable. He really done a great job there for a while. Until the Iraq/Iran war. He borrowed so much money for that war he put the country in debt. Thats why he went in to Kuwait because they would not resolve their debt. Arab countries rallied behind him against Iran then walked away when it was over. He then turned back to Shiria law and Islam(which he had all but abolished). Social upheaval began, this was met with massacre.
Sudan has a weak government and has not been stable for a long time.
Iraq is more civilized, Sudan well it is still a 3rd world country and seems like it will be for a very long time to come.
With these conditions in mind, the brutality in Iraq vs the brutality in Darfur could not have occurred on the same level. Sure it could have, Iraq is simply better equipped to cover it up (ie. mass graves)
Scotty, I've not run into anyone who attempts to make the comparison of Iraq to Darfur as far as brutality. Which is exactly the point I was making , thank you.
Not diminishing what the Iraqi's went through, but they did have the framework by which they could attempt to overthrow their centralized government if they wanted to. Framework ? What framework ? We sent people, other countries supported the rebels in Iraq......... with words of encouragement, lol. Yeah, that will get them far.
In Sudan, who were they going to overthrow, resist-- their neighbor or the people from the next village over? The militants.
Iraqi's have neighbors with civilized militaries and intel ops-- it would have not been impossible for the Iraqi civillians to get them involved. Who ? As I said above, many offered "encouraging words" , but thats as far as they were willing to go.
Sudan's neighbors?
Iraqi's were never helpless.
Sudanese?
The situations leading up to the maasacres are different.
The reasons behind the massacres are different.
The positions of the people involved in the violence are different.
The volume of causalities and the collective effects on their societies are different.
Your comparison of Iraq to Darfur is terribly flawed.
Only flawed in your mind my friend.
In all honesty, I believe Sudan was a set up. There are more terrorist there than Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Lebanon put together. On the battlefield they will bait our troops with one or two attackers that flee in order to draw our troops into a bigger ambush. I believe thats what Darfur was on a larger scale. They knew there was no way we could fully support a mission in Darfur while having operations continue in Afghanistan. We would have had thousands of troops in Sudan without any real support. It would have been a massacre. JMO.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
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