"Let It Go" by TD Jakes

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

There is an obvious bias in thinking here that just is not shared by me. Of coarse I have my bias too...My mind went directly to the circumstances in my life where people have walked away from me, or the vision god has placed in me, and I tried to get them to come back or I let their leaving affect my attitude and future...

But this "permission to leave a marriage stuff" never entered my mind before I saw Bro. Strange's posts....I do not believe for one minute Jakes was saying "leave that marriage"....unless there is no marriage left, which is the case in some circumstances...(for instance: if the spouce leaves and is determined to never come back because they have left for another relationship.....then the one left would need to "let it go" and get on with their life...)

hey T1,
thanks for getting the point that the topic, in its classical pentecostal preacher way, leaves the hearer to fill in all the blanks, add, subtract, apply, don't over apply....on and on and on. Then the preacher can always come back and say stuff like...'that's not what I was saying!" or "he that has ears to hear, let him hear".

I am making NO assertions concerning mr. TDJ core targets, but the general topic is fertile ground for "ambiguous application" that will at some point consider separations involving marriages into the mix.

[tamor]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

I've been saying that for a few posts now...

Yeah me too.....

Originally Posted by tbpew

The complexity of this discussion when applied to a marriage that is facing a separation or has already experienced a separation is often BEYOND the realm of humans to process.

If we give ourselves outlets we will seek to use them.

Groveling, begging, and tossing grandiose promises IS NOT going to produce peace in a contentious relationship.

But the exit of one partner leaving a relationship established between two people who consider God's opinion is the most dramatic opportunity to “search my own heart”. I am inescapably a major player in the circumstance.

If during the relationship we generally make little effort to serve the spirit of peace and “preferring the other”, when chronic contention sows resentment, and finally one of the two parties exit, is God expecting us to reconcile the matter by just saying “buh bye”? What godly wisdom should be in operation in these hugely troubling and sad circumstances?

If one half of a marriage exits, the issue that God needs to carry us back to is not how the separation should be handled BUT how do we look at the issues of our hearts pre-separation.

I am not attempting to put words in TDJ's message, but in my experience in congregations its more important that you preserve attendance in the congregation then preserve the union of the marriage.

"Honey, I went to hear my favorite preacher tonight. I think I found a brand new spiritual gift. It is called the buh bye gift."

Too many women (men too) are now very much embued with this 10th spiritual gift that is not from God. Let a little dissatisfaction settle in and soon they have found someone else to tiltilate their little tiltalator. And then, it is "buy bye." "Thank God for my brand new gift."

Well, maybe Ron is right.

Maybe I am reading too much into this. However, I see so much pride that has crept into churches and marriages to whom the enemy desires to impart the "buh bye" gift.

So many churches have learned how to appeal to the carnal mind, appeasing the lust of wanton christians by which they draw the huge crowds that run shamelessly after these pied pipers of unholy PRIDE.

Just my INITIAL take on this matter. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe my discernment has taken a long vacation this morning.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by tbpew

hey T1,
thanks for getting the point that the topic, in its classical pentecostal preacher way, leaves the hearer to fill in all the blanks, add, subtract, apply, don't over apply....on and on and on. Then the preacher can always come back and say stuff like...'that's not what I was saying!" or "he that has ears to hear, let him hear".

I am making NO assertions concerning mr. TDJ core targets, but the general topic is fertile ground for "ambiguous application" that will at some point consider separations involving marriages into the discussion mix.

This is true IMO...but this is also the peril of any message being preached. There are enough general statements in any given message for someone to bend an interpretation that may not have been the intent of the speaker...especially if you are only given a snippit of the message and not the entire message or full context...

Can one read into these posted words the "leave the marriage" stuff...obviously they can....but I did not, and would dare say that most did not...because they know that these words of encouragment to stop trying to hold onto things that are destroying you and you have no control over (you can't help it if they leave and aren't coming back) must be tempored in the righteousness of God's word and the issue of moral character...

I would suppose that I am just benevolent enough to believe that the one speaking is talking about righteous and Godly "letting go" and not about an unrighteous "independant bad spirit"...as has been suggested here....

I have experienced a righteous and Godly "spirit of goodbye"...and it has made a big difference in my life...

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

"Honey, I went to hear my favorite preacher tonight. I think I found a brand new spiritual gift. It is called the buh bye gift."

Too many women (men too) are now very much embued with this 10th spiritual gift that is not from God. Let a little dissatisfaction settle in and soon they have found someone else to tiltilate their little tiltalator. And then, it is "buy bye." "Thank God for my brand new gift."

Well, maybe Ron is right.

Maybe I am reading too much into this. However, I see so much pride that has crept into churches and marriages to whom the enemy desires to impart the "buh bye" gift.

So many churches have learned how to appeal to the carnal mind, appeasing the lust of wanton christians by which they draw the huge crowds that run shamelessly after these pied pipers of unholy PRIDE.
Just my INITIAL take on this matter. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe my discernment has taken a long vacation this morning.

WOW... where are you attending and preaching? I do not see this happeneing at all where I'm at...Of coarse there are a few marriages that are shaky and working through problems...but not like you have posted...man oh man....I don't get this...and the church only seeking to appease carnality....I'm lost at what church you are talking about....

Perhaps this is why I didn't read into the message what you did...

Are the Apostolic churches really this bad now?...If so...boy a lot has changed since I left a few years ago...

[SDG]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

WOW... where are you attending and preaching? I do not see this happeneing at all where I'm at...Of coarse there are a few marriages that are shaky and working through problems...but not like you have posted...man oh man....I don't get this...

Perhaps this is why I didn't read into the message what you did...

Are the Apostolic churches really this bad now?...If so...boy a lot has changed since I left a few years ago...

Be nice to the Elder, T ... He's the only compassionate ultracon I know

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Be nice to the Elder, T ... He's the only compassionate ultracon I know

Not meaning to be ugly....I just wonder what churches he is talking about...I am in fellowship with many, and I don't see this at all...but of coarse the churches I'm in fellowship with are not Apostolic in the UPC sense...

I am really curious now...is it that bad among the Apostolics he is fellowshipping? Or are these comments simply out of assumption about other fellowships and churches?

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

This is true IMO...but this is also the peril of any message being preached. There are enough general statements in any given message for someone to bend an interpretation that may not have been the intent of the speaker...especially if you are only given a snippit of the message and not the entire message or full context...

Can one read into these posted words the "leave the marriage" stuff...obviously they can....but I did not, and would dare say that most did not...because they know that these words of encouragment to stop trying to hold onto things that are destroying you and you have no control over (you can't help it if they leave and aren't coming back) must be tempored in the righteousness of God's word and the issue of moral character...

I would suppose that I am just benevolent enough to believe that the one speaking is talking about righteous and Godly "letting go" and not about an unrighteous "independant bad spirit"...as has been suggested here....

I have experienced a righteous and Godly "spirit of goodbye"...and it has made a big difference in my life...

the issue for me isn't TDJ, its how spiritual counsels are provided POST-traumatic event.

I'm sorry the TDJ iconic status overhangs this particular discussion and its sidebars.

*from the world of discussion board speculation....*
I wonder if somebody in the TDJ club where to have a spouse who separated and in doing so, left attending the TDJ club, but would attempt to reconcile if they would consider another similarly-believing club to fellowship, would TDJ counsel, "Let it go" or "woman, be thou loosed".

did your "experienced a righteous and Godly "spirit of goodbye"...and it has made a big difference in my life.." involve the ending of two persons who were one flesh before God?

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by tbpew

the issue for me isn't TDJ, its how spiritual counsels are provided POST-traumatic event.

I'm sorry the TDJ iconic status overhangs this particular discussion and its sidebars.

*from the world of discussion board speculation....*
I wonder if somebody in the TDJ club where to have a spouse who separated and in doing so, left attending the TDJ club, but would attempt to reconcile if they would consider another similarly-believing club to fellowship, would TDJ counsel, "Let it go" or "woman, be thou loosed".

I do not kow TD Jakes....but the men and women that I do know that are in fellowship and friendship with him would push for reconciliation of the marriage...

They do not veiw things like church membership and ministry fellowship i the same way that the UPC types do....you can leave their church or group and join another and they still believe you are saved and consider it seed sown to another ministry and not a loss to theirs...

I am in Tulsa...the charismatic capitol of the world...and I know that these "big time" ministers believe in the sanctity of marriage...and if there is any hope of reconciliation...they push for it.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by tbpew

the issue for me isn't TDJ, its how spiritual counsels are provided POST-traumatic event.

I'm sorry the TDJ iconic status overhangs this particular discussion and its sidebars.

*from the world of discussion board speculation....*
I wonder if somebody in the TDJ club where to have a spouse who separated and in doing so, left attending the TDJ club, but would attempt to reconcile if they would consider another similarly-believing club to fellowship, would TDJ counsel, "Let it go" or "woman, be thou loosed".

did your "experienced a righteous and Godly "spirit of goodbye"...and it has made a big difference in my life.." involve the ending of two persons who were one flesh before God?

My experience of "righteous goodbye" was not about marriage at all. I explained that earlier that it was about people leaving our church and sending me letters and such, and me having to accept that they would not take the trip with us...even though I loved them.

BTW, I do not see where TDJ's said anything about marriage either...that was just an assumed thing here on the board from what i can tell...