Sinful union?

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Adino,


What happens when we sin? Does the Spirit of God move out immediately and come back after we repent and are washed in blood of Jesus?

When King David sinned by committing adultery and murder why did he ask God not to take his Holy Spirit from him? He had already sinned yet he did not feel the Holy Spirit leave him.

In reading through these posts I have to ask where is the scriptural proof that King David had the Holy Ghost?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Adino

A spirit separated from God is a dead spirit. This thread deals with the reuniting of the spirit of man with the Spirit of God prior to physical death.

Joelel, when do you believe man's spiritually dead soul is quickened to spiritual life? When is the dead spirit of man born into new life by the Spirit of God?

When your born again of water and Spirit.

Eph.2
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Col.2
[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1Pet.3
[18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

[Adino]

Joelel,

So the man born of the Spirit but not yet born of the water is still spiritually dead although he possesses the Spirit of Life?

The spirit of man remains dead even though it possesses Life?

Explain how this can happen theologically ....

I see this as a theological inconsistency in your position.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Adino

Joelel,

So the man born of the Spirit but not yet born of the water is still spiritually dead although he possesses the Spirit of Life?

The spirit of man remains dead even though it possesses Life?

Explain how this can happen theologically ....

I see this as a theological inconsistency in your position.

Life is in obeying the word as knowledge of truth is given.

1 Tim.004:016Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; (teachings,word,Truth) continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Acts 5:32: And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him

The blood is in obeying the word.

[Adino]

Joelel, you're missing the point. We are examining whether your version of the Truth is theologically consistent. Any doctrine we hold cannot be theologically contradictive.

Does your position suggest that it is possible a man can possess the Spirit of Life and yet still be spiritually dead?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Adino

Joelel, you're missing the point. We are examining whether your version of the Truth is theologically consistent. Any doctrine we hold cannot be theologically contradictive.

Does your position suggest that it is possible a man can possess the Spirit of Life and yet still be spiritually dead?

What is consistent is, it don't make any differance what you do first,get born of the water first or the Spirit first as long as you obey and do it.Yes if you get born of the Spirit and then refuse to get born of the water you will be spiritually dead.The same as if you don't obey all truth as it comes to you you will spiritually die.

[Joelel]

After a person believes and repents and is born of water and Spirit, they must also eat the word of truth (Jesus) to have life.You must continue in his word or you will die Spiritually.

John 6:47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48. I am that bread of life.
49. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh (Word) of the Son of man, and drink his blood,(Drink his Spirit) ye have no life in you.
54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Joelel

What is consistent is, it don't make any differance what you do first,get born of the water first or the Spirit first as long as you obey and do it.Yes if you get born of the Spirit and then refuse to get born of the water you will be spiritually dead.The same as if you don't obey all truth as it comes to you you will spiritually die.

This is like trying to nail jello to a wall.

Joelel, is the man who is born of the Spirit before baptism spiritually dead until he gets baptized?

This is a yes or no question.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Adino

This is like trying to nail jello to a wall.

Joelel, is the man who is born of the Spirit before baptism spiritually dead until he gets baptized?

This is a yes or no question.

You know what is so hard about getting baptized in water right after you get the Holy Ghost ? Water baptism is a part of salvation.I wouldn't say he was spiritually dead but he will die spiritually if he refuses to get baptized.He will not have life.

Water baptism in Jesus name remits sins or washes your sins away. Acts 22:16:And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,and wash away thy sins,calling on the name of the Lord

Acts2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call

Jesus told the disciples in John 20:23 whosoever sins you remit they are remitted and whosoever sins you retain they are retained. When we lead someone to the water to be baptized their sins are being remitted in the water. John20:23: Whosoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosoever sins ye retain, they are retained

NOTE confess. Where do we confess our sins? The blood is applied in the water in the name of Jesus. 1 John 1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Math.3:6: And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins

Believers will be baptized in Jesus name.Acts 8:12: But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women

Acts10:43: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Remisssion in Jesus name baptism Acts 2:38)

Blood was shed at death.Rom.6:: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death (blood): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (blood), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection


Acts 5:32: And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him

Are Father Son and Holy Ghost names? No,They are titles. Jesus said to baptize in the name. What is the Son's name? It's Jesus, Isn't It?

Jesus didn't come in his own name.Jesus Said In 1 John 5 ;43. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.( Here we find Jesus came in his Fathers name ,So his Father's name is Jesus ? )

The Father sent the Holy Ghost in his Son's name.John 14:26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, .( Here we find The Father Sent the Holy Ghost In Jesus name,So the Holy Ghost name Is Jesus.)

Eph.3:014 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 003:015 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, ( Here we find the whole family is named after the Father.( So Jesus Is A family name and is the name of the Father Son And Holy Ghost.)

Who did the Son inherit his name from?You don't inherit something from yourself.Heb.1:004 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. ( We find here Jesus Inherited his name from the Father. What name does a Son Inherit? The family name.)

Math.3:[13] Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.[14] But John forbad him, saying,I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?[15] And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS.Then he suffered him

[Adino]

Until you come to terms with the contradictions I have no use for your interpretation of baptismal passages. Do you not know the answer to my question? Don't you see that any critical thinking person who sees this theological impossibility in your doctrine would want an answer to the inconsistency? I'm giving you the opportunity to clear up an apparent contradiction.

Joelel, is the man who is born of the Spirit before baptism spiritually dead until he gets baptized? Yes or No?