Guns: An Important Discussion - Page 7

Pliny · #61 01-04-2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

So... if four government agents broke into your home in the dead of night to brutalize your family and rape your wife or girlfriend because you're a Christian... you'd draw a distinction and not use lethal force to stop them???

Here you go with the "lethal force" vs self defense. I have stated the right of self defense and have proffered that lethal force is always the last resort. I pray I never have to make that choice because I know which way I will lean unless the grace of God allows me restraint. In the situation cited in an earlier post where I was threatened with a bullet in my head God's grace was with me and I did not have to resort to any "self defense" options. I was able to call the police and that was that. I do not know what I will do. God's grace may give the peace that I need to do His will. If that will is to be passive then so be it. If it is to act upon my instincts then so be it. It will be a bad day for that dude.

Pliny · #62 01-04-2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Or as the yard sign says, "I believe in guns. My neighbor does not. Out of respect for him and his family I will not use my guns to defend his home."

I like that sign!

AreYouReady? · #63 01-04-2013, 01:55 PM

You all should be hearing what I am hearing about what Gerald Celente says about gun control on a radio program.

Most of you would be cheering him on!

Aquila · #64 01-04-2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Or as the yard sign says, "I believe in guns. My neighbor does not. Out of respect for him and his family I will not use my guns to defend his home."

lol

That's a good one. Would you do that to your Christian neighbour??? And would that be a "Christian" thing to do to your neighbour??? And IF one took the sign seriously and your neighbour was seriously hurt or killed... would you not be judged as having a part in the tragedy???

My point... it all leads down a path of carnal logic.

Aquila · #65 01-04-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pliny

Here you go with the "lethal force" vs self defense. I have stated the right of self defense and have proffered that lethal force is always the last resort. I pray I never have to make that choice because I know which way I will lean unless the grace of God allows me restraint. In the situation cited in an earlier post where I was threatened with a bullet in my head God's grace was with me and I did not have to resort to any "self defense" options. I was able to call the police and that was that. I do not know what I will do. God's grace may give the peace that I need to do His will. If that will is to be passive then so be it. If it is to act upon my instincts then so be it. It will be a bad day for that dude.

Pliny, you said,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pliny

Apparently you have missed one of the points I have made - that is there is a difference between religious persecution and a robber.

And I called "false dichotomy" on this claim. It's situational ethics and I believe I can demonstate this logically. Since you claim there is a "difference" between persecution and let's say "robbery" (and I assume rape and other forms of victimization)... can you describe the response that each "different" circumstance demands??? For example,

- Four men break into your home to rob you and do violence (rape) against your wife or girlfriend. What do you do???

- Four government officers break into your home to rob you and do violence (rape) against your wife or girlfriend on account of you being a Christian. What do you do???

Please demonstrate the "difference" your claiming between the two. I know you'd not rule out using lethal force against non-governmental intruders. However, would you refrain from using lethal force if the intruders were indeed persecuting you by robbing your home and raping your wife??? If indeed your actions would be the same, you have to admit that it is a false dichotomy. There really isn't a difference.

Please show me the difference.

Thanks,

CH

Pliny · #66 01-04-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

lol

That's a good one. Would you do that to your Christian neighbour??? And would that be a "Christian" thing to do to your neighbour??? And IF one took the sign seriously and your neighbour was seriously hurt or killed... would you not be judged as having a part in the tragedy???

My point... it all leads down a path of carnal logic.

No more legally responsible than news outlets printing the names of all gun owners...

Aquila · #67 01-04-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pliny

No more legally responsible than news outlets printing the names of all gun owners...

First, I'm all for the 2nd Amendment.

Second, I'd never support printing the names of all gun owners.

While I believe using lethal force with a gun is not an ethical "Christian" response to a threat... I also believe it is within one's "legal rights" to do so.

Aquila · #68 01-04-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pliny

No more legally responsible than news outlets printing the names of all gun owners...

By the way, you're right. Anyone presenting such a list is definitely carnal and are endangering lives.

Pliny · #69 01-04-2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Pliny, you said,

And I called "false dichotomy" on this claim. It's situational ethics and I believe I can demonstate this logically. Since you claim there is a "difference" between persecution and let's say "robbery" (and I assume rape and other forms of victimization)... can you describe the response each difference demands??? For example,

- Four men break into your home to rob you and do violence (rape) against your wife or girlfriend. What do you do???

- Four government officers break into your home to rob you and do violence (rape) against your wife or girlfriend on account of you being a Christian. What do you do???

Please demonstrate the "difference" your claiming between the two. I know you'd not rule out using lethal force against non-governmental intruders. However, would you refrain from using lethal force if the intruders were indeed persecuting you by robbing your home and raping your wife??? If indeed your actions would be the same, you have to admit that it is a false dichotomy. There really isn't a difference.

Please show me the difference.

Thanks,

CH

The difference is persecution because of being a Christian. The fact that you pointed this out in your question reveals you already understand the difference because, you wrote that difference into your question. therefore, your question is only argumentative. Thus, showing your "false dichotomy" to be nothing more than a ruse to argue.

As mentioned above I pray that persecution like that never comes. If it does I pray for God's grace to give me the peace I need to abstain from the most basic and fundamental of human instincts. Should it come I will seek to send my family to safety.

Aquila · #70 01-04-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pliny

The difference is persecution because of being a Christian. The fact that you pointed this out in your question reveals you already understand the difference because, you wrote that difference into your question. therefore, your question is only argumentative. Thus, showing your "false dichotomy" to be nothing more than a ruse to argue.

As mentioned above I pray that persecution like that never comes. If it does I pray for God's grace to give me the peace I need to abstain from the most basic and fundamental of human instincts. Should it come I will seek to send my family to safety.

Let's assume you fail to get your family to safety... you'd pray that God gives you the strength NOT to use violence or lethal force to protect your wife or girlfriend from being raped by government agents persecuting you over your faith??? She's screaming, "Help me!!!!" Do you say, "Honey, I can't use the gun... this is persecution. Just focus on Jesus!"???