Do you believe in modesty

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by shamgar1

This is a comprehensive definition that most Christians adhere to.

Why is that we (Oneness Pentecostals) have decided that modesty is defined as an abstinence from certain apparel as opposed to a mere moderation?

Are knee shorts immodest? Does a woman wearing slacks look immodest?
Who decides these things? It seems we always arrive at a complete abstinence as opposed to a more reasoned application of common sense.

In my estimation modesty is absent at many of our church services and conferences. We must stay in the finest hotels, wear the most up to date name brands, and carry the newest gadgets available (cell phones, blackberries). Not to mention an immodest, vain spirit.

Excellent!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by shamgar1

This is a comprehensive definition that most Christians adhere to.

Why is that we (Oneness Pentecostals) have decided that modesty is defined as an abstinence from certain apparel as opposed to a mere moderation?

I wasn't aware "we" did! The issue of wearing certain kinds of apparel USED to be either an issue of a distinction in sexes and or modesty. For example OPs don't forbid wearing skirts or dresses (abstinence) as a modesty issue but only certain KINDS of dresses and skirts

Are knee shorts immodest?

To some folks they are, even on men. But that does not equate abstinence of wearing pants, but only certain kinds of pants

Does a woman wearing slacks look immodest?

It depends on the slacks, but once again the issue for most OPs is not modesty but distinction of sexes.

Who decides these things? It seems we always arrive at a complete abstinence as opposed to a more reasoned application of common sense.

That is the question of the thread. How do YOU come to your conclusion of what is modest or not? Others here have chimed in saying the Holy Spirit with the word speaks to them.

In my estimation modesty is absent at many of our church services and conferences. We must stay in the finest hotels, wear the most up to date name brands, and carry the newest gadgets available (cell phones, blackberries). Not to mention an immodest, vain spirit.

That would be your estimation. I don't know anyone that HAS to stay in the finest hotels, wear up to date name brands....though they might wear up to date name brands...since we don't live in China just about everything we buy here is going to be a name brand. Very few generic clothing can be had that does not fall apart in a week. I don't know many OPs that HAVE to have the newest gadgets, but why would that be immodest? Why is having a blackberry or a cell phone immodest?

[Elihu]

That would be your estimation. I don't know anyone that HAS to stay in the finest hotels, wear up to date name brands....though they might wear up to date name brands...since we don't live in China just about everything we buy here is going to be a name brand. Very few generic clothing can be had that does not fall apart in a week. I don't know many OPs that HAVE to have the newest gadgets, but why would that be immodest? Why is having a blackberry or a cell phone immodest?

There is no scriptural prohibition on jewelry and make-up, yet many Oneness Pentecostals have been taught these things are not only immodest - they are sinful. The reasons given for these prohibitions are varied: Vanity is probably the first, followed by an attempt to blend in to the world.

The truth is vanity presents itself in many forms to even the most conservative believer. Churches can exhibit vanity in their buildings, their programs, and their attempts to market themselves bigger and better than they really are. Christians can operate in a spirit of vanity through an arrogant superiority to the lost world around them.

To me, modesty is about much more than clothing. It is an attitude of the heart. If the heart has been circumcised, the fruit of the Spirit will evidence. One of the end results of the Spirit's work is a willingness to be SELF controlled. Galatians 5:22

This self-control is best defined as modesty in all things, including dress, presentation, attitude, and passions.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

To read some of the "arguments" (for lack of a better word and one that won't get me in trouble", one might be led to believe some where don't believe in modesty at all.

Should we dress and act modestly? And if so, how do you go about deciding what is modest and what is not?

Does disagreeing with others' definition or description of "modesty" mean that the one disagreeing does not believe in modesty?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by shamgar1

There is no scriptural prohibition on jewelry and make-up, yet many Oneness Pentecostals have been taught these things are not only immodest - they are sinful. The reasons given for these prohibitions are varied: Vanity is probably the first, followed by an attempt to blend in to the world.

The truth is vanity presents itself in many forms to even the most conservative believer. Churches can exhibit vanity in their buildings, their programs, and their attempts to market themselves bigger and better than they really are. Christians can operate in a spirit of vanity through an arrogant superiority to the lost world around them.

To me, modesty is about much more than clothing. It is an attitude of the heart. If the heart has been circumcised, the fruit of the Spirit will evidence. One of the end results of the Spirit's work is a willingness to be SELF controlled. Galatians 5:22

This self-control is best defined as modesty in all things, including dress, presentation, attitude, and passions.

Somebody "gets" it!

Originally Posted by shamgar1

There is no scriptural prohibition on jewelry and make-up, yet many Oneness Pentecostals have been taught these things are not only immodest - they are sinful. The reasons given for these prohibitions are varied: Vanity is probably the first, followed by an attempt to blend in to the world.

The truth is vanity presents itself in many forms to even the most conservative believer. Churches can exhibit vanity in their buildings, their programs, and their attempts to market themselves bigger and better than they really are. Christians can operate in a spirit of vanity through an arrogant superiority to the lost world around them.

To me, modesty is about much more than clothing. It is an attitude of the heart. If the heart has been circumcised, the fruit of the Spirit will evidence. One of the end results of the Spirit's work is a willingness to be SELF controlled. Galatians 5:22

This self-control is best defined as modesty in all things, including dress, presentation, attitude, and passions.

Two awesome posts in a row!!!!

Good job!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by shamgar1

There is no scriptural prohibition on jewelry and make-up, yet many Oneness Pentecostals have been taught these things are not only immodest - they are sinful. The reasons given for these prohibitions are varied: Vanity is probably the first, followed by an attempt to blend in to the world.

The truth is vanity presents itself in many forms to even the most conservative believer. Churches can exhibit vanity in their buildings, their programs, and their attempts to market themselves bigger and better than they really are. Christians can operate in a spirit of vanity through an arrogant superiority to the lost world around them.

To me, modesty is about much more than clothing. It is an attitude of the heart. If the heart has been circumcised, the fruit of the Spirit will evidence. One of the end results of the Spirit's work is a willingness to be SELF controlled. Galatians 5:22

This self-control is best defined as modesty in all things, including dress, presentation, attitude, and passions.

Absolutely...!!

Originally Posted by Felicity

Somebody "gets" it!

I get it too, I just can't say as good it as does she.

[RandyWayne]

There is no scriptural prohibition on jewelry and make-up, yet many Oneness Pentecostals have been taught these things are not only immodest - they are sinful. The reasons given for these prohibitions are varied: Vanity is probably the first, followed by an attempt to blend in to the world.

I just finished a couple of very in-depth classes for Cisco routers. (In case your not aware, these are the devices which make sure the packets of data from your computer reach another computer anywhere in the world.)

On thing we spent a lot of time on were the concept of Access Lists. These are a form of filter that the router uses to determine of one packet is allowed to pass through to its destination. This can be based on the IP or IP range of the originating packet, or the destination, or the port number, or other criteria. At the very end of the list there is an "implicit deny". Meaning, if the criteria is not met once the last rule in the list is compared, then the packet is thrown out, never to reach its destination.

When it comes to these various dress, jewelry, make-up, and modesty issues the final "implicit deny" is rebellion against the man of God. It is the catch all when no biblical or rational reason can be explained to proclaim something "wrong".

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

To read some of the "arguments" (for lack of a better word and one that won't get me in trouble", one might be led to believe some where don't believe in modesty at all.

Should we dress and act modestly? And if so, how do you go about deciding what is modest and what is not?

How tight and how much skin is showing.