Yes. From the divine perspective you would indeed be an astronaut. lol
Let's look at various perspectives of reality. I know it sounds strange but consider this... you are a living being on a satelite (earth) spinning through space. Also, God being transcendent of time, sees what His eternal intention is for you... and sees you as that very thing right now in time. Perhaps in eternity you will take His glory throughout creation in your glorified body. For example, Paul said that we are "seated" (present tense) with Christ in Heavenly places. I look around, I don't see myself seated with Christ in Heavenly places. But I know that I am, I have reckoned it so by faith. The Bible says that I am the "righteousness of God", therefore while I see the principle of sin in my fallen flesh, and even experience failure to govern it at times, I know that with regards to my spirit (which is one with Christ in the Holy Spirit) I am sinless, pure, and holy.... Justified, standing just before God, as though I never sinned. Why? Jesus became sin for me, that I might become the righteousness of God. He who knew no sin, took my sin and my very identity upon Himself in His Passion, that I (being a totally depraved human being) might take upon myself His righteousness and identity. I was crucified with Christ. I was buried with Christ. I am risen with Christ. And I am presently seated with Christ. That means, through Christ (or in Christ), I am dead to the Law. I've already served my punishment for my sin (past, present, future) in Christ. There is no law against me now. I live as one risen from the dead. This is my new identity in Christ. And I reckon it so by faith. The moment I try to please God by obeying the Law, I've fallen from grace. Why? Because I'm human and I'm bound to sin. And once I have, I have broken the whole Law in breaking one law. And even if I obeyed the Law perfectly for only a day... I've only attained the "righteousness of the Law", not the righteousness of Christ (who is holier than the law). If I live by the Law I robe myself in my works... if I reckon Christ's righteousness as being imputed to me by faith... I robe myself in Christ's righteousness, and thereby I am sinless and clothed in God's own holiness which goes infinitely beyond the holiness aquired by the Law. And when I fail and do sin, as Paul said, it is not I who sins, but sin that dwells within my fallen flesh. With my outward man I find myself obeying the law of sin (due to the fallen nature of my flesh), but according to the inward man I obey the Law of God via Christ Jesus. I must now walk after the Spirit, reckoning these truths by faith, or I will be overcome by a sense of condemnation. To be disappointed in self... is to have trusted in self. If I'm overcome with condemnation I clearly got my eyes off Christ and His work on the cross.
Remember, the human perspective is limited to time and space. The divine perspective is not. We must see ourselves as God sees us... not as we see ourselves or according to our behaviors or those standards that religion regulates through various laws, customs, and traditions.
Apostolics are largely legalistic. We focus on works. Therefore we've failed to learn how to appropriate these various truths of our identity in Christ by faith. We face the danger of living in a little world of our own little laws... that can never please God. This will either create in us a hardened legalism... or a burned out apathy. In both cases, there is a failure to be conformed into the very image and likeness of Christ Jesus.
Now, I'm not to live by "standards" or "rules". Now I am to allow self to die daily, that Christ be formed in me. Throughout our lives the Holy Spirit is forming and fashioning us into the image and likeness of Christ as we surrender self with each passing day. The ultimate end... being in the image of Christ, glorified, and in fellowship with God. I have no standard... I have an example. I have no things to do... I have somone to be. This is the glory of grace.
In sports they say, "Keep your eyes on the ball. Be the ball." In the Christian arena we are to, "Keep your eyes on Jesus. Be Jesus."
I may understand what you are saying even better than you do!
And here is what you are saying: There is reality and there is your (and/or God's) perception, and they are not the same. You are saying that God is perceiving certain things that are not real (i.e., not the same as reality), and expecting you to believe His perception is correct, regardless of what the reality is.
In fact, this concept is fundamental to the Christian doctrine of imputed righteousness. You are not righteous, but God sees you as righteous. If God says you are an astronaut, you must believe you are an astronaut, even if you are not.
Now, about the thread: is it wrong for a Christian to sue? If you say (again) that you are not to live by standards and rules, and you have no things to do, but you have someone to be, will that someone ever sue? Would your example ever sue?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I may understand what you are saying even better than you do!
And here is what you are saying: There is reality and there is your (and/or God's) perception, and they are not the same. You are saying that God is perceiving certain things that are not real (i.e., not the same as reality), and expecting you to believe His perception is correct, regardless of what the reality is.
In fact, this concept is fundamental to the Christian doctrine of imputed righteousness. You are not righteous, but God sees you as righteous. If God says you are an astronaut, you must believe you are an astronaut, even if you are not.
You almost have it. However, you have drawn some very troubling theological implications. For example, you wrote...
Quote:
And here is what you are saying: There is reality and there is your (and/or God's) perception, and they are not the same. You are saying that God is perceiving certain things that are not real (i.e., not the same as reality), and expecting you to believe His perception is correct, regardless of what the reality is.
The issue is.... God defines reality. And it is from an eternal perspective so it is always an objective reality. If God says you're an astronaut... rest assured... you are or will be. What is "not real" is our limited perception that we call "reality" in the carnal mind. For example, I wanted to be an aviator in the Navy. I invisioned it. I breathed it. I was obsessed with it. And I thought that would be my future. It was my "reality". But the future didn't pan out that way... I had a false sense of my future. A false sense of identity. Everything we experience here in what you're calling "reality" is actually what is not real. Because eternity will prove things are quite different. So I'd reward what you're saying. I'd say,
And here is what you are saying: There is human perceptionand there is your (and/or God's) reality, and they are not the same. You are saying that God is specifying certain things that are reality (i.e., though not the same as human perception), and expecting you to believe His reality is correct, regardless of what your human perception is.
Notice... Christocentric instead of Humanist. You can often tell what world views and forms of thought a person has by their chosen wording. For example, while you might understand what I'm saying... either consciously or subconsciously you don't reckon it a reality. Or you'd have written it as such. Therefore, I'd conclude that you struggle in your faith... especially with many truths in Scripture. A happy "Christian agnostic" as it were. Most likely this is the result of years of spiritual abuse though. At least I've seen that with those coming out of the Apostolic movement. It's a defense mechanism. When you've had to fight for your very life and identity against those who used the Bible to abuse you...it's only natural to keep the Bible and it's truths at arm's length and filter them.
Timmy...the Jesus I've gotten to know within the past 9 months is so different. I can't explain it. I pray He embraces you and you begin to experience some of the life changing truths I've experienced.
Quote:
Now, about the thread: is it wrong for a Christian to sue? If you say (again) that you are not to live by standards and rules, and you have no things to do, but you have someone to be, will that someone ever sue? Would your example ever sue?
Ah, you just reverted into a legalistic paradigm. I said there were not "standards" or religious "rules". However, there is an "example" to live by, Christ. And it is our quest and desire to be conformed and fashioned into the image of His very person. There is only one standard... be conformed into the image of Jesus. Be as much of Jesus as you can possibly be. And this will increase with time. This process is theologically known as "sanctification" (not to be confuse with "consecration", which is purely related to fitness for service).
So the question is really, would Jesus sue a person if they stole His retirement, or if He lost a significant amount of money through the malice or negligence of another? lol
I love this grace message regarding our identity in Christ. Rules and legalistic standards are always easy to measure. Just check the box and you think you're good.
But the grace method makes a higher demand... be spiritually one with Jesus Himself... and allow His life to flow through you, conforming you into His image. Thus "Jesus" becomes a 24/7 way of life. A frame of mind. A focus of living. A reckoned idenity. A walk of faith. And in this... everyone is at different places as they are maturing into the image and likeness of Christ's person.
Being a Christian merely means "being a disciple of Christ". Jesus is the standard.
Your not answering the question, would you be part of prosecuting the person?
If you forgive and love your enemies, how could you want them punished?
Forgiveness is something that takes effort. It's something one must be dedicated to do in spite of how they feel. It's like "love". Real agape love is determined to love without condition.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question. Are you wanting me to say I'd desire to have the guy prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?
Also, love doesn't always mean you don't want someone punished. As a parent I know there may be a day when my son gets into trouble and I will have to purposefully refuse to bail him out. Why? I love him... and know he needs to learn an important lesson that only punishment can teach him.
I have NOT read the thread but in certain circumstances I would sue...That does not mean you hate because you sue. It might be advice given by a lawyer to get medical help. Someone from our church in the states was once involed in an accident and the person driving told them to sue because of hospital costs. Their insurance paid so no feelings were hurt.
If someone touched my moral YES I would go to law....A person's reputation is all you really have.
So their are certain circumstances I would seek legal advice. I have a good christian lawyer and a good lawyer in Brazil.
It is my right as a christian to protect my name and reputation.
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I have a better question. Is it wrong for a veteran that has been disabled to receive VA benefits due to their disabilities? Is that the same as suing?
Forgiveness is something that takes effort. It's something one must be dedicated to do in spite of how they feel. It's like "love". Real agape love is determined to love without condition.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question. Are you wanting me to say I'd desire to have the guy prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?
Also, love doesn't always mean you don't want someone punished. As a parent I know there may be a day when my son gets into trouble and I will have to purposefully refuse to bail him out. Why? I love him... and know he needs to learn an important lesson that only punishment can teach him.
I think the motivation is important.
So suing in court to gain an unlawful loss is wrong, we should trust God but going to criminal court to punish someone is ok?
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Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
Therefore, I'd conclude that you struggle in your faith... especially with many truths in Scripture. A happy "Christian agnostic" as it were. Most likely this is the result of years of spiritual abuse though. At least I've seen that with those coming out of the Apostolic movement. It's a defense mechanism. When you've had to fight for your very life and identity against those who used the Bible to abuse you...it's only natural to keep the Bible and it's truths at arm's length and filter them. 
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