The BP Oil Spill: Putting it in Perspective

[Ferd]

One more thing and I will shut up.

"Big Oil" really is hundreds of thousands of well paid middle income familes who work for these companies.

it is also millions of people who own shares of stock in these companies in their retirement accounts. "Big Oil" is you and me. and countless others who depend in part on the success of these companies to pay our retirements.

THAT is who "Big Oil" is.

[Ferd]

http://redneckusa.wordpress.com/2010...mote-and-iffy/

good article on why wind is not viable.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Do you not agree this is par for the course for all politicians?

If you have energy on your agenda, could there not be a better time to put that in the spotlight?

Okay, Deacon, I'll mark it down - whatever that means. Are you aware of the turn-around time for the ecology to recover?

I don't get fellow conservatives downplaying the spill. That's your strategy? Give me a break!

I don't believe history bears out that all elected leaders take advantage of crises to introduce broad and sweeping changes to the country that our forefathers built. Even liberal commentators and pundits criticized Obama's speech where it appeared that in light of this disaster his focus was to push a green energy policy. i mean when Obama gets criticized by "tingle up my leg" Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow---you're really going off the deep end.

I know that the turn around time that the eco people cite. I also know studies have been done to oil spill areas and that the earth does quite a remarkable job of healing itself. Oil is, after all, a "natural" resource. I slamoned fished in the Prince William Sound area back iun 2006 and the fishing idustry was thriving, the boats went out everyday in the village we were staying in and the slamon fishing nwas superb. The grizzlies looked large and healthy, we saw moose, black bears, bald eagles, sea otters, orcas, beavers and many other species that seemed to be doing just fine. The Gulf region will bounce back if Obama and the green folks will allow them to. The fact is, they will try to enlarge the government's role in private industry and in their private lives to such an extent that the feds will do more damage to that region recovering than any oil spill would ever do.

I stated plainly the oil spill was tragic. As far as downplaying the oil spill, you're wrong. I am downplaying the epic proportions that the libs are trying to portray this because they really dont care about the people or the environment as much as they do about destroying capitalism and free enterprise. They are ideologues---its very plain to see. If they really cared about the region they woulod be down there like Bobby Jindal is, who hasnt been to his office one day since the oil spill occured. He hasn't been fundraising, playing golf, vacationing, attending concerts at the governor's mansion, etc. He's been there day and night fighting for his state. If BO cared like some think he does or he claims, it would show in his time commitment.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

*rolls eyes*

Didn't vote for the guy and not his #1 fan, but statements like this baffle me.

Talk about political opportunism.

Okay, share with us a worse 18 months of governance in the White House in modern times and we will do a comparison.

[deacon blues]

Obama's First 18 Months:

* Stretching beyond the authority of the Constitution
* Strong-arming corporations since taking office
* Firing the head of General Motors
* Forcing Chrysler into a merger
* Forcing GM and Chrysler to close dealerships
* Restricting executive pay at Wall Street firms
* Forcing health insurance companies to rollback rates
* Forcing BP to fork over $20 Billion dollars into some dubious fund
* Obama’s economic policies have not helped reverse the Crash of 2008
* Unemployment is still high
* Credit is still tight
* GDP growth has been sluggish at best
* He has spent faster and more freely than all other previous administrations combined, from George Washington to George W. Bush
* All that spending has only served to put us deeper in debt
* With the upcoming G20 summit, Obama addressed his unhappiness to the other world leaders that they should refrain from austerity and keep on spending more money
* In Europe, the nations there are bound to the Maastricht Treaty, legally binding them to keep deficit spending at or below 3% of their GDP. Not only does Obama disregard our own laws under our Constitution, but he thinks little of the laws of other nations
* His one major accomplishment in his first 18 months in office, the health care plan, also stretches the limits of the Constitution, forcing citizens to buy private insurance or be penalized by the government through the IRS
* The violence in Iraq and Afghanistan has yet to decline
* We are no safer here at home than we were before his taking office. Several terrorist attempts have been averted luckily because of incompetence on the part of the jihadists. They penetrated our security easily
* Illegal immigration is still a huge problem, probably made worse now by the announcement this week that the Federal government will challenge Arizona’s SB1070 law in court
* The economy is still a mess

For a president who claims to have been educated at Harvard on Constitutional law, even later teaching it himself, to flaunt the Law of the Land in such a manner is shocking, to say the least. During last week’s meeting with BP executives, Obama had at the table Attorney General Eric Holder, who, under Obama’s direction, has already begun a criminal investigation against BP. There is also the subject of recent language used by Administration officials, such as “putting the boot to the throat” of BP, and Obama himself saying he’s looking for, “who’s a** to kick”.

The bully-pulpit of the presidency is not intended to serve a position to be a bully. The reason it’s called a “pulpit” is to inspire moral leadership, to define right and wrong, justice versus injustice. Carrying out a range of activities that defy or exceed the limits of his Constitutional authority does not endear neither confidence or moral leadership. This is why Obama’s poll numbers continue to slide downward, both here at home and abroad.

I suppose if he had exceeded his Constitutional authority and actually corrected some of these problems, we might not mind his feeble attempts at dictatorship. But since he’s failed at all of them, how would YOU grade his first 18 months?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

For nearly nine weeks, hundreds of thousands of gallons of oil have been gushing into the waters of the Gulf of Mexico every day. Eleven men and untold numbers of marine wildlife have died. The already suffering people in the Gulf region are looking at an even dimmer immediate future. And an entire summer tourism industry on which hundreds of communities depend has been nearly destroyed. BP is now in a full-on panic, and the Obama administration is increasingly frantic as it scrambles to keep the president’s approval rating from slumping into the oily abyss.

The Christian community, in which many remain skeptical of the environmental movement, appears to have come down with a case of PR schizophrenia, with reactions ranging from complacency to indignation. Most of their responses leave us asking: How should Christians respond?

An overview of those responses so far:


Ignoring it. Perhaps the most confounding reaction coming from some Christians is apathy. Many Christians seem unconcerned with what is going on in the Gulf, or at least preoccupied with “more important” political issues like Arizona’s new immigration law. Searching the web sites of major Christian groups for “oil spill” returns few or no results.

Capitalizing on it. Some Christians, particularly those who have taken a laissez-faire approach to environmental regulation in the past, have seen this tragedy as an opportunity to attack the President. Ken Blackwell of the Family Research Council and the Traditional Values Coalition have both lobbed bombs, and Sarah “drill baby, drill” Palin has been clobbering the administration everywhere from Fox News to Facebook. They are hoping to tar this administration with the legacy that Hurricane Katrina left for the Bush administration.

.....

With the precision only a pastor and theologian can achieve, Moore hits the Christian community in the heart. How can we expect people to believe our message of hope and life when people see us responding to devastation with apathy, self-interest, or fanaticism? Should not our callousness be replaced with compassion, our apathy with action?

Now is the time for the Christian community to open up our deep coffers and provide assistance to those in need. We should spend some of our political capital to call politicians to the table to implement safeguards to prevent another catastrophic oil spill. Individuals should pray, churches should send cleanup teams and all of us should reflect on those habits in our lives that have contributed to this mess.

If Christians fail to rise to this occasion, Americans won’t only lose faith in big corporations and the ability of the federal government to manage environmental crises. They’ll lose faith in us.

More here http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/0...the-oil-spill/

Interesting takes on the oil spill. The people screaming "political opportunism" have filled up blogs and threads during this crisis to lob premature bombs at Obama. The same people incensed and outrage when liberals did that to Bush.

I cant speak for all of Christendom but I can speak for this Christian. I am on outdoorsman, I love nature and prestine environments. I have contributed thousands over the years through hunting and fishing licenses as well as involvement with Ducks Unlimited and Delta Waterfowl all which use those funds to preserve and conserve. I dont want poisoned rivers, lakes and oceans. I dont want land raped of its beauty. There have been abuses, yes. But the modern day environmental movement is more anti-capitalism than it is pro environment. Along with the recent disclosures of dishonesty with which the so-called environmental experts have handled data concerning global warming, how can we trust what these people say including the media that espoused all of this info without questioning it?

So its hard to take these dramatic descriptions of the Gulf tragedy without a sense of skepticism.

Oil drilling in the ocean has been going on for decades and since 1963 there have only been two major disasters. Pretty good track record I say. The 1963 oil spill occured near Santa Barbera, CA. It was massive. Have you heard any reports of the great damage done to that area and how its has completely detroyed their way of life there? No you havent. In fact until this oil spill I wasnt even aware there had been one in Santa Barbera.

I have plenty of compassion for the folks whose way of life has been harmed; the fishermen, the shrimp boats, the oyster boats, the tourism, etc. BP should be responsible, they should pay reparations. But it is obvious to anyone with eyes that this radical White House has an agenda to completely alter our Constitutional way of life. It is not opportunistic to criticize BO for what he and his Chicago gang are doing to this nation. Bush was slow to respond to the Katrina tragedy yes, but the local governement was woefully amiss as well as the state. There were lines of authority that were inplace to deal with that tragedy that failed to deliver. The feds govern the oil drilling. Not Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, not Florida. The comparisons arent compatible. What are we to do? Stay silent and compliment Obama on shutting down drilling for six months, a move that would further harm the people of that area? Should we passively sit by and applaud an administration who has gone on record to say that they would not allow any crisis to go to waste?

I am a Christian and I have plenty of compassion. That doesnt mean I cannot speak out against dangerous political maneuvering.

Besides, God already has a plan for nature. John saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the former were passed away. This planet has a shelf life. God is Sovereign. He wants to save humanity. He wants uis to help Him. Saving the planet is not a high priority on His list. He's got that all taken care of. He didnt die for beaches, oysters, shrimp, dolphins, pelicans and sea turtles. He died for lost humanity. That is why Christians arent consumed with environmentalism. At least not this Christian.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Ferd

That 4 trillion is a number I remember from somewhere.

Here is the problem. The areas where there is high demand for electricity in America are generally speaking long distances from where it can be consistently generated.

In addition to this, the land area needed to build both Wind and Solar plants is massive. A power plant on 100 acres would require more than ten times that much land to generate the same power.

Then we get back to transportation. Because of the distance between power production and power use, you will have to basically build out an entirely new National grid. BUT that grid cannot be the kind we have in use now. AC power is very inefficient. Line loss is a huge problem that compounds with distance. So the new grid would have to be DC based. A DC based power grid, would require entirely new everything spanning tens of thousands of miles of transmission lines and all new plants to transform the DC power back to AC power for consumption.

TRILLIONS will be needed to make that happen.

As for as the technology to move us away from gas? It simply does not exist. There is no technology that allows for hydrogen at a cost that is reasonable. In fact it would come in higher than $10 per gallon if compared to gas. Plus it is less efficient, meaning it takes more of it to travel 1 mile than it does gas.

The only other option is electric. At this point there is no electric power plant that can economically drive a family car more than 100 miles between recharge. Recharge will require more than an hour (and up to 6 hours) to take place. Secondly, these cars are still vastly more expensive than gas powered cars.

Next, there is no such electric technology that can drive large cargo transports. It doesn’t exist and we are generations away from something like that.

There is some discussion about natural gas, but it too is less efficient and it would require a massive build out of an all new infrastructure to install NG at all the gas stations. Also it has the same basic problems that Gas does. It is a fossil fuel. It still emits (all be it less) the same pollutants that gas does.

There is an interesting project in India that might (might) have some potential. It drives a car on air. Now there are issues with pressurized air and again you have some issues with infrastructure but it seems there is real possibility here. The people involved say they can provide an onboard air compressor that runs on gas and gives you somewhere around 1000 miles per gallon of gas equivalent. This is something with some possibility.

The other thing that has real possibility has nothing to do with going away from “gas” per sey but it is getting away from oil pumped from the ground. That is Algae-petroleum. There are a number of efforts that are very close to getting a barrel of Algae-Crude at around $75 per barrel. Such an effort could change everything. You don’t need arable land so you don’t impact food production. You don’t need fresh water so you don’t impact water use.

Since it is chemically identical to the kind of crude pumped from the ground, the current infrastructure would work just fine. If in the next 10 years this can come of age, you could see a complete shutdown of drilling.

I am neither a fan nor an opponent of oil companies. I am a fan of my own pocket book. Until such time as we can get a technology that can deliver transportation at the cost structure of gas, there is no reason to move away from it.

Excellent

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Concerning the 6 month ban on drilling.

The Obama team put out a safety plan to be reviewed by a number of industry experts. That safety report was passed by the experts and then published….

But there was one very large problem. The report that was published was different than the one that was reviewed! The reviewers did not see anything about cutting off all deep water drilling for 6 months! BUT the report that was released both included that measure and was purported to have been reviewed!

When the reviewers learned this, they spoke up and said that this 6 month ban will raise not lower danger levels!

These guys have no shame

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Besides, God already has a plan for nature. John saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the former were passed away. This planet has a shelf life. God is Sovereign. He wants to save humanity. He wants uis to help Him. Saving the planet is not a high priority on His list. He's got that all taken care of. He didnt die for beaches, oysters, shrimp, dolphins, pelicans and sea turtles. He died for lost humanity. That is why Christians arent consumed with environmentalism. At least not this Christian.

Actually our redemption is part of a whole redemption that includes creation (Romans 8), and like us, the Kingdom is both "at hand" and "to come." We are stewards over this creation as well, so I'd like to think Christians should about as "environmental" as they come.

So I ask you again, what is the solution here? What would you like Obama to do? What would make you applaud him?

Do we know more about why BO is asking for a drilling moratorium? I'm curious myself. THe only reason I could think of is how a second spill would really complicate matters in the Gulf. But aside from that, the pros/cons, I don't think it's helpful. He's vulnerable because of his public policy positions towards oil already. Bush would have the same hyper-criticism for any support he showed to the oil companies. Politics. I wasn't aware of Obama's rebuke my Keith Olbermann. I'm impressed that KO showed an objective bone in his body. Good for him.

The thing about oil spills is that it's not a situation of frequency, it's severity.

2 Oil spills? Here's a list of the Top 10: http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/hi...il-spills/?808

The short-term effects of a spill are most obvious, the long-term are still being researched. The Exxon oil is still in the water! Scientists continue to monitor the ecological damage. But it's odd I'm again defending why oil spills aren't a good thing, and are in fact, a crisis.

[deacon blues]

Jeffrey you're defending a straw man. I keep qualifying myself that I see this as tragic, sad, unfortunate, etc. I simply feel it is more tragic and harmful to the area for the prez to try to score political points with the extreme left that he must be beholden to to kill 125,000 jobs for 6 months when the area is already reeling.

The experts assembled by Interior Secretary Sanchez said there is more risk and danger capping these wells than allowing them to continue. Yet the admin continues to press for a moratorium. The only reasonable explanation is that since they already have lost swing vote supporters, they must play to their base, the liberals. They are playing politics with a tragedy and making it worse.

You echo what I state and then argue as though I said otherwise. I said God has a plan for nature. Its a done deal. You say its a part of our redemption. So where's the difference? I Peter says the elements will melt with a fervent heat. Again I have qualified myself as a over of nature, I don't polute, I don't want poisoned waters or land, yet you act as though I'm dismissive of any feelings for the environment. I do know that many liberal environmentalists care less about the earth and care more about power grabs, government control and misguided fiscal policies and energy policies that will only cripple our nation and our freedoms.

My criticisms of the prez have nothing to with a solution to the oil spill. He couldn't have prevented it. I never said he could. I'm criticizing the political opportunism that the chief of staff of this admin said was their philosophy, that is, to take advantage of crises to force through radical changes to our society. These men and women are activists. They have no regard for the nation our forefathers established. They believe the Constitution is an evolving document that should be tampered with or even ignored.

I would applaud BO if he would rescend the moratorium. But that won't happen. They are appealing the judge's ruling that the moratorium is not legal. I would applaud BO when its warranted, and I have once since he became prez. His speech to the Nobel Foundation on the acceptance of his Peace Prize was exceptional. I am not a partisan hack. But BO has offered very little to applaud.