With one wave of the popes hand.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by CC1

I wonder if notofworks would have just stood by without protest if he had lived in Germany in the early 1940's. Would he have urged everybody to be pacifists and let Adolf Hitler take over the world? Did we thwart Gods will by defeating the Nazis?

From what I've read here by NotOfWorks, I doubt if he would just stand by. I think he's a better person than that. Actually, I think I would be more apt to go along to get along than NOW would.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Sam

From what I've read here by NotOfWorks, I doubt if he would just stand by. I think he's a better person than that. Actually, I think I would be more apt to go along to get along than NOW would.

In this thread I have encouraged that our national political leaders be respected, regardless of their political position. It has now been stretched into me being a "pacifist" and giving Adolf Hitler a free pass as he murdered millions of Jews. This accusation is WAY out-of-bounds. WAY!

To say this is "insulting" would be underselling by a galaxy or two. There are some great ways I could respond in kind, but I won't.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by CC1

I wonder if notofworks would have just stood by without protest if he had lived in Germany in the early 1940's. Would he have urged everybody to be pacifists and let Adolf Hitler take over the world? Did we thwart Gods will by defeating the Nazis?

You didn't ask me but I'll insert my two cents worth in here. I believe we are supposed to be obedient to the laws of our country unless they violate a higher law. I think the principle of Acts 4:29 applies in those cases. I think of Corrie ten Boom and others who defied the law of the land, used deception to get rationed food for Jews, and outright lied to government officials to protect Jews. I think of many early Americans who committed treason against the government to establish these United States. I don't know NOW all that well but I think he would be like these examples.

[Jeffrey]

This thread seems pointless but raises good principle issues. One of those is Romans 14 and not shaming others for things that are "iffy." But another is what NOW said about Christians being separate and set apart unto God in our ways of thinking, values, etc... (I'm paraphrasing him). This is our greatest opportunity to be set apart. But neither do we want to be people without a sense of humor... but it's obvious NOW didn't care for the joke, in spite of 99% of this thread not having a problem with it.

That's what forums are for I guess. Hand wrangling.

[Twisp]

I wonder if a joke at the expense of the Tea Party's name and/or actions at capital buildings would have as much acceptance on this forum as the Pelosi being slapped joke? A joke is a joke, is it not?

[Jeffrey]

A little "feisty rhetoric" would do us good now and then. Take us back to the days of Parliament. Senate decorum winks in session and flips the bird in a news interview with their respective cable interviewer afterward.

[Coffee99]

Bit confused about how NOW became a Nazi sympathizer. Maybe I missed the whole heil-salute-bear-the-swastika posting that he made - but I don't think so. No, pretty sure I didn't miss it.

There are many of us who might have been fearful of the Hitler machine - and cowered and not done what we could in order to keep our families safe. You know, that whole "stay under the radar" thing. I hope I would have had the courage to do the right thing. But I will never know - wasn't there.

NOW would, more likely than I, been the fellow that we worried about. The one who stuck his own neck out because it was the right thing to do. It was the thing a Christian should do. And he quite possibly would have paid dearly for that.

Why do I say that? Well, NOW seems to have no qualms about running afoul of the entire board when he feels that he must take a stand. He doesn't let a minority position dissuade him. And, I've noticed, he gains strength in that stand when he feels that he is speaking out for someone who is not here to defend themself, for someone who faces bigger obstacles in life, for the downtrodden, the unwanted, the disliked. True, it's words on a forum and there are no gun-toting SS coming from him. But, I suspect that words probably indicate rather a lot about all of us. Even on a harmless message board. And, I suspect that he would have been one of the fellows putting up a rather fierce resistance to the Nazis.

Most things that get thrown on out on this forum just make me shake my head. This one made me sad. It was a low-blow that was more than a little uncalled for.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Coffee99

Bit confused about how NOW became a Nazi sympathizer. Maybe I missed the whole heil-salute-bear-the-swastika posting that he made - but I don't think so. No, pretty sure I didn't miss it.

There are many of us who might have been fearful of the Hitler machine - and cowered and not done what we could in order to keep our families safe. You know, that whole "stay under the radar" thing. I hope I would have had the courage to do the right thing. But I will never know - wasn't there.

NOW would, more likely than I, been the fellow that we worried about. The one who stuck his own neck out because it was the right thing to do. It was the thing a Christian should do. And he quite possibly would have paid dearly for that.

Why do I say that? Well, NOW seems to have no qualms about running afoul of the entire board when he feels that he must take a stand. He doesn't let a minority position dissuade him. And, I've noticed, he gains strength in that stand when he feels that he is speaking out for someone who is not here to defend themself, for someone who faces bigger obstacles in life, for the downtrodden, the unwanted, the disliked. True, it's words on a forum and there are no gun-toting SS coming from him. But, I suspect that words probably indicate rather a lot about all of us. Even on a harmless message board. And, I suspect that he would have been one of the fellows putting up a rather fierce resistance to the Nazis.

Most things that get thrown on out on this forum just make me shake my head. This one made me sad. It was a low-blow that was more than a little uncalled for.

Thank you, Coffee. I can't believe the Nazi thing is being allowed to stand, but it is. The essence of what is being said, is that I would heartlessly sit by and watch Jews be killed. I can't imagine how much lower someone could go in the statements against another person. I've had people drop hints that I'm gay, call me a heretic, and say that I have behavioral disorders. But this one is the lowest.

And can I just say......

This AFF Admin has created another thread solely for the purpose of tearing me down. There's no way I'm gonna post on it, but can I just say...to everyone who has said kind things, thank you very much. I guess I'm actually thankful for the thread because what was created to tear me down has actually built me up, greatly.

As for the Beatles music in church....you folks that are thrashing it, you're not the first to lash out at us for doing it. Previously, our office has received many calls, I get many emails, and even several messages from local pastors when we've done the Beatles series. They're all very angry messages.

But the bottom line is.....we're not doing the music for you, or for those other Christians. We're doing it for those who don't know Christ. And I've never, EVER, had one complaint from them. We, as a local church in our city, often fail in the public opinion polls from other Christians, but that's never been our concern. But our "approval ratings" are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT from the unchurched, and that's the bulls-eye on the target for us.

We've had hundreds visit and listen to Beatles music and the Christ-centered message that was applied to it. And dozens have come to Christ. Last Sunday as I spoke, I looked and saw many that were saved through the Beatles music.

Do you want to make negative points about John Lennon and his character? Point taken. But if we do that, we must also investigate the personal lives of Christian artists, many of whom aren't Christian at all and have personal lives that would go well beyond the depravity of any of the Beatles. My overseer, pastor of a large pentecostal-style church, recently had a mutiple-grammy-award-winning Christian artist appear at his church. He told me afterwards that he'll have AC/DC preach the sermon before he'd let this fellow come back. It was a horrible experience. And I guarantee you, that nearly all of you have his music in your CD collection.

Respectfully, to those of you who are already saved....it doesn't matter what you think about the Beatles series. But our neighbors across the street (literally) who are drunk 24-hours of everyday of their lives, who have been attending on Sundays, who have asked for our help? It COMPLETELY matters what they think. And the reason they first attended? The Beatles series.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Thank you, Coffee. I can't believe the Nazi thing is being allowed to stand, but it is. The essence of what is being said, is that I would heartlessly sit by and watch Jews be killed. I can't imagine how much lower someone could go in the statements against another person. I've had people drop hints that I'm gay, call me a heretic, and say that I have behavioral disorders. But this one is the lowest.

And can I just say......

This AFF Admin has created another thread solely for the purpose of tearing me down. There's no way I'm gonna post on it, but can I just say...to everyone who has said kind things, thank you very much. I guess I'm actually thankful for the thread because what was created to tear me down has actually built me up, greatly.

As for the Beatles music in church....you folks that are thrashing it, you're not the first to lash out at us for doing it. Previously, our office has received many calls, I get many emails, and even several messages from local pastors when we've done the Beatles series. They're all very angry messages.

But the bottom line is.....we're not doing the music for you, or for those other Christians. We're doing it for those who don't know Christ. And I've never, EVER, had one complaint from them. We, as a local church in our city, often fail in the public opinion polls from other Christians, but that's never been our concern. But our "approval ratings" are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT from the unchurched, and that's the bulls-eye on the target for us.

We've had hundreds visit and listen to Beatles music and the Christ-centered message that was applied to it. And dozens have come to Christ. Last Sunday as I spoke, I looked and saw many that were saved through the Beatles music.

Do you want to make negative points about John Lennon and his character? Point taken. But if we do that, we must also investigate the personal lives of Christian artists, many of whom aren't Christian at all and have personal lives that would go well beyond the depravity of any of the Beatles. My overseer, pastor of a large pentecostal-style church, recently had a mutiple-grammy-award-winning Christian artist appear at his church. He told me afterwards that he'll have AC/DC preach the sermon before he'd let this fellow come back. It was a horrible experience. And I guarantee you, that nearly all of you have his music in your CD collection.

Respectfully, to those of you who are already saved....it doesn't matter what you think about the Beatles series. But our neighbors across the street (literally) who are drunk 24-hours of everyday of their lives, who have been attending on Sundays, who have asked for our help? It COMPLETELY matters what they think. And the reason they first attended? The Beatles series.

Because I am not participating in that "other" thread, Jeffrey said something that I meant to mention and failed to. We are using exactly the same strategy that Paul used when he "quoted their poets" in Acts 17 in the discussion at Mars Hill. I also meant to post this verse, which is an incredible statement:

"Those in frequent contact with the things of the world should make good use of them without becoming attached to them, for this world and all it contains will pass away." (I Corinthians 7:31 NLT)

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Because I am not participating in that "other" thread, Jeffrey said something that I meant to mention and failed to. We are using exactly the same strategy that Paul used when he "quoted their poets" in Acts 17 in the discussion at Mars Hill. I also meant to post this verse, which is an incredible statement:

"Those in frequent contact with the things of the world should make good use of them without becoming attached to them, for this world and all it contains will pass away." (I Corinthians 7:31 NLT)

Maybe you have been asked this question before, but why the Beatles?

I get the concept, but the Beatles were not in anyway Christian and practiced eastern religions. They took hallucinogenic drugs ect. and John Lennon's remark about being more popular that Jesus-is honestly hard to understand why you would chose them.

Just have to ask.