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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #391  
Old 08-02-2010, 03:40 AM
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truthseeker3139 truthseeker3139 is offline
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

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Originally Posted by DrPhil View Post
I would strongly disagree with this assertion. Standards are obviously not standardized. It is possible to be in the UPC and have various practices regarding standards. For those of us who are males, the standard issue was not very oppressive. I can't speak for everyone, but let me be clear that the reason I left is for soteriological reasons only (the doctrine of salvation.) Once one sees the clear New Testament teaching and the conrnerstone of the Protestant reformation is that salvation is by grace through faith alone in the finished work of Jesus on the cross, the theology and practices of UPC begin to fall like dominos. The exclusive nature of the group and the informal practice of "shunning" are some of my greatest cBoncerns.
No argument from me, I was making a general statement, about a saying I heard all my life when I was in the UPC. But it is "the standards" that are almost always questioned first by most. But then again, it's not like all these other denominations don't have their own unbiblical creeds and doctrines either.
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  #392  
Old 08-02-2010, 03:45 AM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

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Originally Posted by Godsdrummer View Post
This is what gets me Falla this passage does not say we are saved by obediance. But rather we become obediant once we are saved.

Salvation comes by grace, which then in turn teaches us to deny ungodliness.
Bible says he gives eternal salvation too them that obey him.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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  #393  
Old 08-02-2010, 03:48 AM
pastorrush pastorrush is offline
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

Thought this was a apostolic website, They taught all sinners to come to God they needed to repent water baptized in Jesus name and recieve the holy ghost with speaking in other tounges any one who teaches otherwise is not apostolic and is not saved. Acts 2 Acts 8 Acts10 Acts19.Maybe some of you need to go back and ask Peter in Acts 2:37 men and Brethern what must I do.[Falla I am Glad that We have found the road that leads to eternal life Hope others do to.]
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  #394  
Old 08-02-2010, 08:36 AM
faithit166 faithit166 is offline
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

mirth you stated that you did not intend for this thread to become a debate,but that is exactly what has happened you say that their are things that you are struggling with coming on to this forum you are opening yourselves to many others opinion when the only opinion that matters is god.you will always find someone who is going thru some of the same issues,if you struggle with standards take it before god and wait on him ive been on this forum for about 1 week now read alot i hear many people bashing upc regardless the issues they have or what one may think i do not believe this is pleasing to god ,by any means listen to god miryth he has your answers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirth1981 View Post
Hi...I don't intend for this thread to be started as a debate. I would just like to hear stories from those that have left the UPC.

Specifically...What made you finally decide to leave? Was it difficult? Were you able to find a church that wasn't "easy believism" but yet one that didn't enforce extra-biblical principles where you could go and worship God in your own way? Do you have any regrets? Anything you wish you had done differently? How is your walk with God now? Do you still suffer from self condemnation and feel brainwashed?

I have been really struggling in my spirit lately. I'm terrified of leaving the UPC because of the repercussions it will cause in my life (and for my husband, who is a minister). Yet I know feeling this way just reinforces the fact that I need to "get out." I still believe in oneness, baptism, and the Holy Ghost. What I don't believe in is man made "standards" that create an environment that breeds judgmentalism and pharisetical saints. Also every church I've been in...I feel controlled....even manipulated. I can't do that anymore. But I don't know how to get out.

I hope this is okay...and that I'm not breaking any rules by posting this. I have been reading this forum lately, and it seems like there are many very balanced people on here. This seemed like a good place to go for support.

Thank you in advance.
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  #395  
Old 08-03-2010, 08:52 AM
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Bible says he gives eternal salvation too them that obey him.
So them you call Jesus a lier? John 3:1-16 you must read the whole chapter to understand the message. You can't pull two verses out of context in the first part of the chapter and preach salvation of works when the rest of the chapter teached salvation by faith beleiving.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
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  #396  
Old 08-03-2010, 09:27 AM
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Godsdrummer Godsdrummer is offline
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

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Originally Posted by pastorrush View Post
Thought this was a apostolic website, They taught all sinners to come to God they needed to repent water baptized in Jesus name and recieve the holy ghost with speaking in other tounges any one who teaches otherwise is not apostolic and is not saved. Acts 2 Acts 8 Acts10 Acts19.Maybe some of you need to go back and ask Peter in Acts 2:37 men and Brethern what must I do.[Falla I am Glad that We have found the road that leads to eternal life Hope others do to.]
Apostolic yes. what you call apostolic though started in the early 1900's what I used to call a refreshing of the revelation of the oneness of the godhead and baptism in Jesus Name, and receiving the holyghost with evidence of speaking in tongues. The problem being as with so many in the past and present too many stop with what God gives them at the time and do not go one to full understanding of the full message.

And yes lets go back to Acts 2 when they ask men and brethren what must we do. First of Peter already told them how to be saved.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So what of Acts 2:38, Well what of the rest of the message Peter preached? He condemeded them for crucifing Christ. and told them they were the ones guilty of murder, to this is what they responded to when they said "men and brethren what shall we do?" The question was not how can we be saved, Peter already told them this the question was what can we do to fix this great murder we have commited.

Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

This element of faith beleiving is in all the passages you want to preach salvation of works from.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Now just so you understand what I am saying our salvation is secured by faith in the work of the cross nothing more nothing less. If our faith is true we will obey as did Abraham, baptism, further we will walk in the light of the word of God.

Just as Peter understood when he preached to Cornelious That God had accepted him because of his faith and he knew this because they too had received the holy ghost just as they had, Peter allowed them to be identified by baptism.

Check out Acts 10:48 the word command is better translated "Bid" It was not a command it was a privelage to be baptized and identify with this new group. Notice Peter said in the prevous verse, "who can forbid these baptism seeing they too..."

I hope I have presented this in away that is not argumentive, that is not my intent. I do not want to come accross as one that feels I know it all. What I do want to do is get others to get back into the word, and quit accepting what has been spoon feed to them all thier lives and check things out for themselves. Remember we are all human and we don't know everything. The only sure thing we can stand on is the word of God. Rightily dividing the word studing to show ourselves approved."
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  #397  
Old 08-04-2010, 05:14 PM
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DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

[QUOTE=faithit166;946286]mirth you stated that you did not intend for this thread to become a debate,but that is exactly what has happened you say that their are things that you are struggling with coming on to this forum you are opening yourselves to many others opinion when the only opinion that matters is god.you will always find someone who is going thru some of the same issues,if you struggle with standards take it before god and wait on him ive been on this forum for about 1 week now read alot i hear many people bashing upc regardless the issues they have or what one may think i do not believe this is pleasing to god ,by any means listen to god miryth he has your answers[

Nobody should be afraid to ask honest questions. It was honest questions that started the Protestant Reformation as Luther challenged the theology of the catholic church. It was honest questions that started the Pentecostal revival of the past century. Questions are good and not to be feared. Sometimes I felt that in church we were subtly asked to check our brains at the door. It's ok to love the Lord with all your mind as well. I'm sure there are people that bash the UPC and people who bash those who left, but most of us are just asking and responding to honest questions.
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  #398  
Old 08-04-2010, 05:17 PM
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DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorrush View Post
Thought this was a apostolic website, They taught all sinners to come to God they needed to repent water baptized in Jesus name and recieve the holy ghost with speaking in other tounges any one who teaches otherwise is not apostolic and is not saved. Acts 2 Acts 8 Acts10 Acts19.Maybe some of you need to go back and ask Peter in Acts 2:37 men and Brethern what must I do.[Falla I am Glad that We have found the road that leads to eternal life Hope others do to.]
Sorry pastor. Your group doesn't have a corner on the word "apostolic" on the name of Jesus, on the Holy Spirit, on healing, or anything else. We belong to Jesus, He doesn't belong to us.
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  #399  
Old 08-04-2010, 08:37 PM
faithit166 faithit166 is offline
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

theres nothing wrong in asking questions,but their are many people always willing to express their opinions but only what gods says in the end matters if someone is confused we need to hear from god amen[QUOTE=DrPhil;947251]
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithit166 View Post
mirth you stated that you did not intend for this thread to become a debate,but that is exactly what has happened you say that their are things that you are struggling with coming on to this forum you are opening yourselves to many others opinion when the only opinion that matters is god.you will always find someone who is going thru some of the same issues,if you struggle with standards take it before god and wait on him ive been on this forum for about 1 week now read alot i hear many people bashing upc regardless the issues they have or what one may think i do not believe this is pleasing to god ,by any means listen to god miryth he has your answers[

Nobody should be afraid to ask honest questions. It was honest questions that started the Protestant Reformation as Luther challenged the theology of the catholic church. It was honest questions that started the Pentecostal revival of the past century. Questions are good and not to be feared. Sometimes I felt that in church we were subtly asked to check our brains at the door. It's ok to love the Lord with all your mind as well. I'm sure there are people that bash the UPC and people who bash those who left, but most of us are just asking and responding to honest questions.
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  #400  
Old 08-04-2010, 08:44 PM
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Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Re: For those that left the UPC...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsdrummer View Post
So them you call Jesus a lier? John 3:1-16 you must read the whole chapter to understand the message. You can't pull two verses out of context in the first part of the chapter and preach salvation of works when the rest of the chapter teached salvation by faith beleiving.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Isn't believing God is to obey God?? I think so. Believing is obeying! Can't have one without the other.




Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him;
KJV

2 Thess 1:8

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
KJV




Acts 5:32

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that OBEY him.
KJV


Apostles taught salvation and Holy Ghost come by obedience.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.

Last edited by Truthseeker; 08-04-2010 at 08:46 PM.
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