New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance

[Originalist]

The blood was applied to the Mercy Seat in Heaven by Christ. That's when forgiveness came. We apply that already poured out forgiveness by repenting, of which baptism is a part.

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Hmmm ... let's see, I guess we need a new song.

"At the Cross" isn't good enough.

At the creek,
At the creek,
Where I first saw the light
And the burdens of my heart rolled away,
It was there by water I received my sight
And now I go sputtin' all the day ...

By the way, we've heard that little catch phrase in all our lives ... another UPC saying that sounds good and soothes the masses but no one really knows what it means.

Now will one of you great theologians elaborate well and be specific and tell me what the difference is between FORGIVENESS and REMITTANCE?

[bbyrd009]

"another saying that sounds good and soothes the masses but no one really knows what it means."

If you can't explain it to an eight year old...

[HolyFire]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Tim R.

Simple one question.

Are your sins forgiven when you ask God to forgive you at repentence?

Repentance is not asking forgiveness. I've always thought asking forgiveness was just that, asking forgiveness. Repentance is the act of turning away and walking a different path. "Repent and do the first works", Rev 2:5. Forgiveness is a part of repentance, but not repentance in itself.

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by HolyFire

Repentance is not asking forgiveness. I've always thought asking forgiveness was just that, asking forgiveness. Repentance is the act of turning away and walking a different path. "Repent and do the first works", Rev 2:5. Forgiveness is a part of repentance, but not repentance in itself.

I agree.

metanoeō is the Greek word for Repent in Acts 2.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3340&t=KJV

1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

Forgiveness of sins comes through repentance and water baptism in Jesus Name. You can't separate these two.

[jboling90]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

I agree.

metanoeō is the Greek word for Repent in Acts 2.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3340&t=KJV

1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

Forgiveness of sins comes through repentance and water baptism in Jesus Name. You can't separate these two.

AMEN!!!! We are actually baptized into the remission of sins!

[jboling90]

Originally Posted by SDG

From another thread:

Sniff ... sniff ... sniff ...

FALSE DOCTRINE ALERT!!!!

You stand with the Roman church on that one, Mizzy ...

Not even Bernard or most of the 3 step crowd has gone that haywire.

Do you agree w/ Mizpeh in her new-fangled 3 step doctrine that our sins are not forgiven at repentance?

ok one please keep a spirit of meekness and humility when instructing others, and you should understand that someone hasn't really repented of their sins without being baptized. John 3:5 and John3:16 don't contradict each other. You don't believe if you don't obey. Obedience is being baptized in Jesus name and recieving the Holy Spirit. Now, after you have been saved, we must continue on that path of repentance, and ask God to forgive us if we fall and get it under the blood and keep moving forward down the original path of repentance we started on. We repent away from a sinful life to follow after Jesus. You haven't recieved His grace if you read what is so clear in the scriptures about baptism and the baptism of His Spirit, and then decide it's not necesarry. A repentant heart wants all that God has for them, not just the bare minimum.

[Esaias]

New doctrine?

(insert Ed McMahon laughter here)

One is forgiven when repentance is complete - which includes baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

All this hair splitting... still....going on....

Just repent, get baptised, get the Holy Ghost, live holy, be a living witness, and don't sweat the small stuff like 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin'.

[shag]

" One is forgiven when repentance is complete - which includes baptism in the name of Jesus Christ"


So then anybody and everybody that begs for forgiveness from God, and dedicates loyalty to letting Jesus Christ rule their hearts and minds, but hasn't been baptised by someone else that says ..."in Jesus name" or "in the name of Jesus Christ", while baptising them, has not been forgiven? That's a lotttttttta people.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

" One is forgiven when repentance is complete - which includes baptism in the name of Jesus Christ"


So then anybody and everybody that begs for forgiveness from God, and dedicates loyalty to letting Jesus Christ rule their hearts and minds, but hasn't been baptised by someone else that says ..."in Jesus name" or "in the name of Jesus Christ", while baptising them, has not been forgiven? That's a lotttttttta people.

hmmm... I think I remember reading something about 'wide is the gate that leads to destruction, and many there be that go in thereat...'

But aside from that...are you saying that 'begging forgiveness from God and dedicating loyalty to letting Jesus Christ rule their hearts and minds' must necessarily result in forgiveness?

Oh, another thing... if a person dedicates themself to Jesus Christ to letting him rule their heart and mind... wouldn't they as a matter of course GET BAPTISED IN HIS NAME?

Oh yeah... one more thing... I never said anything about anybody being 'baptised by somebody else.... while saying' ANYTHING.

[Esaias]

I think the number one problem people have in understanding this is the fact that waaaaaay too often we ALL try to separate 'repentance' from baptism. We have made repentance into a ritual in itself - a specific set of actions, like 'coming forward', or 'saying this prayer', or 'weeping at the altar', or some other such ritualised event, rather than viewing 'repentance' as a summation of the individual turning from a vain life of unbelief and rebellion to one of faithful obedience.

I don't see anywhere in the Scripture where the apostles made such a separation, or treated of repentance as a distinct, separate, STEP or EVENT in a person's life to the extent we do today.

I don't think anyone in the first century would have thought 'okay, I repented, now what? Get baptised?' Repentance seemed to mean simply dropping whatever life one had, and replacing it with being a follower of Christ.

As such, repentance BEGINS with the DECISION to follow Christ and forsake sin and vanity, and culminates in the new birth.

All this desire to find some example of a person who 'repented' and then somehow died on the way to the baptistry seems silly to me.

Repent AND BE BAPTISED... for the remission of sins.

The two are conjoined.

Look at Paul's conversion... he follows the same pattern, and preached the same pattern, as was found throughout Acts. And thus is normative 'conversion' according to the Scripture.

So rather than trying to determine 'was I forgiven before I was baptised, when I was baptised, after I was baptised, when I first repented... when exactly DID I first repent? A trip to the altar? When I decided to go to the altar but before I actually physically moved forward?' etc etc... perhaps we should simply ask 'Does my conversion match the Biblical norm? Did I repent? Was I baptised? Am I filled with the Holy Ghost? Am I overcoming the devil, the flesh, and the world? Am I walking in faith, perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord?'

Maybe, if we quit straining out the gnats we will not swallow the camel.

A difficult thing sometimes, but perhaps needed.