Do you believe in modesty

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

To read some of the "arguments" (for lack of a better word and one that won't get me in trouble", one might be led to believe some where don't believe in modesty at all.

Should we dress and act modestly? And if so, how do you go about deciding what is modest and what is not?

Prax, I am confused (wouldn't be the first time), but I just can't figure out where you came up with this notion that folks here "don't believe in modesty at all."

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BTW I am glad to hear you believe in modesty. I would like to see that others do to and what modesty is and how we come to a determination of what modesty is. BTW do you believe in a distinction of the sexes in dress?

Yes, I do believe in a distinction between the sexes, and my primary argument about women wearing pants is BASED on that. Both men and women wore robes in the bible. I assume that they were cut differently for men as for women, otherwise that means that THEY did not practice distinction between the sexes. Both men and women now wear trousers, and they are cut differently for men than for women.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The Holy Ghost won't contradict the bible, but in my experience I have met thousands of people that all claim the Spirit is leading them and yet they all come to different conclusions. My conclusion is that I don't believe every one of them was really led by the Spirit.

The word was inspired by the Spirit so part of being led BY the Spirit is also being led by the word.

Im really glad for what you say here, however I was hoping we could all come to a conclusion based on more than feeling something is not right. The reason is that we will have many that say they feel something different. We have people that feel God is telling them they don't need a church or a pastor and others feel differently.

Well, I guess I just believe that if I'm filled with the Spirit, He will guide me into all truth.

[SDG]

Also red herrings ... in mystery literature and movies are devices to distract the reader from the real suspect or issue at hand ...

Wiki:
In literature, a red herring is a plot device intended to distract the reader from a more important event in the plot, usually a twist ending.
The term "red herring" originates from the tradition whereby young hunting dogs in Britain were trained to follow a scent with the use of a "red" (salted and smoked) herring (see kipper). This pungent fish would be dragged across a trail until the puppy learned to follow the scent. Later, when the dog was being trained to follow the faint odor of a fox or a badger, the trainer would drag a red herring (which has a much stronger odor) across the animal's trail at right angles. The dog would eventually learn to follow the original scent rather than the stronger scent.


In literature, the most commonplace use of a "red herring" is in mystery fiction. One particular character is described or emphasized in a way that seems to throw suspicion upon that character as the person who committed the crime: later, it develops that someone else is the guilty party.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Barb

Prax, I am confused (wouldn't be the first time), but I just can't figure out where you came up with this notion that folks here "don't believe in modesty at all."

I didn't say "folks here don't believe in modesty at all". I said to hear some of their arguments one MIGHT be led to believe that. And so here is an opportunity for everyone to say YES I believe in modesty for a change instead of trying to tear down someone elses notion of modesty

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Well, I guess I just believe that if I'm filled with the Spirit, He will guide me into all truth.

That is what we all hope and expect, but apparently we don't all come to the same conclusions.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BTW do you or anyone else actually have something to say on THIS topic instead of trying to change it to something else?

In the first place Prax, when I got the Holy Ghost, one of the first things God told me to do was to put some clothes on...and I mean in a way that went far beyond what the world calls "normal". So I think that is our first "stop" on the road to clarifying this issue...when you feel self-conscious or get that "under-dressed" feeling, that's probably the spirit of God telling you you don't have enought clothes on (I'm saying "you" in a general sense...not you, personally). My wife, as a new convert, went through this...going to a church gathering and tugging at her sleeves and such...feeling like she was too exposed. I've heard of quite a few people experiencing this awareness of a need for modesty soon after conversion. Of course, this goes totally against what the world calls "normal". Going swimming in mixed company with bathing suits on is no problem for the world. They could go out and mow the lawn in shorts and a tank-top (or no shirt at all) and think that's just fine...but that's what regeneration does for you...the grace of God in your heart teaches you to live soberly, righteously and godly.

Our second "stop" is the word of God. The Bible indicates that exposing one's thigh is nakedness, and this is from ancient times. Even the Old Testament priests had to wear undergarments that extended from the loins to the thighs to prevent someone from seeing up their garments. We'll let the record reflect that the lower part of the legs and the feet didn't seem to be a concern, but above the knee most definitely was. This gives us a feel for what the Biblically sound position would entail.

Finally, the word of God says to "ask for the old paths", and that the younger should submit to the elder, so WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE ABOVE, let's look at what Holy Ghost-filled, anointed people of God have felt that God has written on their hearts, and have preached with authority. Holiness-minded people (myself included) have almost universally recognized that taking off one's shirt is nudity, and through the witness of the Holy Ghost, we've had the law of God written in our hearts agreeing with the Bible that exposing the thigh is nakedness. So that is where parameters have come from such as having skirts come past the knees, etc. I know that this doesn't answer EVERY modesty question, but it's a good start.

Taking into account "the Big Three"...how does it square with the Holy Ghost, how does it line-up to the Bible, and what does the consensus of our elders seem to be, goes far beyond modesty issues...there is great safety in this for all kinds of issues! God has been good to his church, giving us his Spirit, his word, and the ministry for the perfection of the saints.

Troy

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Yes, I do believe in a distinction between the sexes, and my primary argument about women wearing pants is BASED on that. Both men and women wore robes in the bible. I assume that they were cut differently for men as for women, otherwise that means that THEY did not practice distinction between the sexes. Both men and women now wear trousers, and they are cut differently for men than for women.

I don't know how different they were, but I have heard that they were different. However I think it was more than just the cut.

I have a question. What determined the differences in the bible? Was it the external cultural trends of pagan and hebrew society (when they were not influenced by the pagan cultures)?

Yes... and now the cultural trend is that it is okay for women to wear pants... except for the .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000001 percent of the population that is Pentecostal and think that only whores wear them.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Polaris

In the first place Prax, when I got the Holy Ghost, one of the first things God told me to do was to put some clothes on...and I mean in a way that went far beyond what the world calls "normal". So I think that is our first "stop" on the road to clarifying this issue...when you feel self-conscious or get that "under-dressed" feeling, that's probably the spirit of God telling you you don't have enought clothes on (I'm saying "you" in a general sense...not you, personally). My wife, as a new convert, went through this...going to a church gathering and tugging at her sleeves and such...feeling like she was too exposed. I've heard of quite a few people experiencing this awareness of a need for modesty soon after conversion. Of course, this goes totally against what the world calls "normal". Going swimming in mixed company with bathing suits on is no problem for the world. They could go out and mow the lawn in shorts and a tank-top (or no shirt at all) and think that's just fine...but that's what regeneration does for you...the grace of God in your heart teaches you to live soberly, righteously and godly.

Our second "stop" is the word of God. The Bible indicates that exposing one's thigh is nakedness, and this is from ancient times. Even the old testament priests had to wear undergarments that stretched from the loins to the thighs to prevent someone from seeing up their garments. We'll let the record reflect that the lower part of the legs and the feet didn't seem to be a concern, but above the knee most definitely was. This gives us a feel for what the Biblically sound position would entail.

Finally, the word of God says to "ask for the old paths", and that the younger should submit to the elder, so WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE ABOVE, let's look at what Holy Ghost-filled, anointed people of God have felt that God has written on their hearts, and have preached with authority. Holiness-minded people (myself included) have almost universally recognized that taking off one's shirt is nudity, and through the witness of the Holy Ghost, we've had the law of God written in our hearts telling us that exposing the thigh is nakedness. So that is where parameters have come from such as having skirts come past the knee. I know that this doesn't answer EVERY modesty question, but it's a good start.

Taking into account "the Big Three"...how does it square with the Holy Ghost, how does it line-up to the Bible, and what does the consensus of our elders seem to be goes FAR beyond modesty issues...there is great safety in this for all kinds of issues! God has been good to his church, giving us his Spirit, his word, and the ministry for the perfection of the saints.

Troy

Thanks, however it seems that many who claim to have the Holy Ghost don't all agree and I am not merely speaking of here. I mean Christianity in general. I have seen many women claiming to be led of the Spirit wear low cut tops and to church of all places and bend over to pray for someone else. Yet we have some Christian women here (Sherri) that confesses she is led to NOT dress that way, for which I am glad and I admire she is led to that conclusion.

One last thing. I remember once during a revival we had a young lady there that was the sister of a member. She came during a revival and the power of God was very strong in that service. I remember her almost running to the alter afterwards and the whole time she was tugging on her very short skirt to make it lower than what it was. She seemed convicted by the Spirit.

I am wondering based on what you said and Sherri and others if perhaps we are not all influenced this way by the Spirit but some of us might be ignoring what the Spirit is saying to us and instead going by our own flesh and saying THAT is the Spirit speaking to us.

I remember hearing Tammi Faye Baker saying God told her that her makeup was ok. Not to make an issue of makeup being a sin or anything...whether it is or isn't I seriously doubt God is going to tell someone her makeup is ok...that just seems out of character