Has Hell Disappeared?

[Maximilian]

Because links are often overlooked, here's some excerpts:

Keller's contention: Hell is very important to the Christian faith for several reason:

1. It is important because Jesus taught about it more than all other Biblical authors put together. Jesus speaks of "eternal fire and punishment" as the final abode of the angels and human beings who have rejected God (Matthew 25:41,46) He says that those who give into sin will be in danger of the "fire of hell" (Matthew 5:22; 18:8-9.) The word Jesus uses for 'hell' is Gehenna, a valley in which piles of garbage were daily burned as well as the corpses of those without families who could bury them. In Mark 9:43 Jesus speaks of a person going to "hell [gehenna], where 'their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.' " Jesus is referring to the maggots that live in the corpses on the garbage heap. When all the flesh is consumed, the maggots die. Jesus is saying, however, that the spiritual decomposition of hell never ends, and that is why 'their worm does not die.' .....

2. It is important because it shows how infinitely dependent we are on God for everything. Virtually all commentators and theologians believe that the Biblical images of fire and outer darkness are metaphorical. (Since souls are in hell right now, without bodies, how could the fire be literal, physical fire?) Even Jonathan Edwards pointed out that the Biblical language for hell was symbolic, but, he added, 'when metaphors are used in Scripture about spiritual things . . . they fall short of the literal truth." (from "The Torments of Hell are Exceeding Great" in volume 14 of the Yale edition of Edwards works.) To say that the Scriptural image of hell-fire is not wholly literal is of no comfort whatsoever. The reality will be far worse than the image. What, then, are the 'fire' and 'darkness' symbols for? They are vivid ways to describe what happens when we lose the presence of God. Darkness refers to the isolation, and fire to the disintegration of being separated from God. Away from the favor and face of God, we literally, horrifically, and endlessly fall apart.

In the teaching of Jesus the ultimate condemnation from the mouth of God is 'depart from me.' That is remarkable--to simply be away from God is the worst thing that can happen to us! ......

3. It is important because it unveils the seriousness and danger of living life for yourself. In Romans 1-2 Paul explains that God, in his wrath against those who reject him, 'gives them up' to the sinful passions of their hearts. Commentators (cf. Douglas Moo) point out that this cannot mean God impels people to sin, since in Ephesians 4:19 it is said that sinners give themselves up to their sinful desires. It means that the worst (and fairest) punishment God can give a person is to allow them their sinful hearts' deepest desire. ..........

http://www.redeemer.com/news_and_eve...e_of_hell.html

[Maximilian]

More from Keller http://www.redeemer.com/news_and_eve...e_of_hell.html

I believe one of the reasons the Bible tells us about hell is so it can act like 'smelling salts' about the true danger and seriousness of even minor sins. However, I've found that only stressing the symbols of hell (fire and darkness) in preaching rather than going into what the symbols refer to (eternal, spiritual decomposition) actually prevents modern people from finding hell a deterrent. Some years ago I remember a man who said that talk about the fires of hell simply didn't scare him, it seemed too far-fetched, even silly. So I read him lines from C.S. Lewis:

Hell begins with a grumbling mood, always complaining, always blaming others . . . but you are still distinct from it. You may even criticize it in yourself and wish you could stop it. But there may come a day when you can no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood or even to enjoy it, but just the grumble itself, going on forever like a machine. It is not a question of God 'sending us' to hell. In each of us there is something growing, which will BE Hell unless it is nipped in the bud.

To my surprise he got very quiet and said, "Now that scares me to death." He almost immediately began to see that hell was a) perfectly fair and just, and b) something that he realized he might be headed for if he didn't change. If we really want skeptics and non-believers to be properly frightened by hell, we cannot simply repeat over and over that 'hell is a place of fire.' We must go deeper into the realities that the Biblical images represent. When we do so, we will find that even secular people can be affected.

[Maximilian]

Point 4

4. The doctrine of hell is important because it is the only way to know how much Jesus loved us and how much he did for us. In Matthew 10:28 Jesus says that no physical destruction can be compared with the spiritual destruction of hell, of losing the presence of God. But this is exactly what happened to Jesus on the cross-he was forsaken by the Father (Matthew 27:46.) In Luke 16:24 the rich man in hell is desperately thirsty (v.24) and on the cross Jesus said "I thirst" (John 19:28.) The water of life, the presence of God, was taken from him. The point is this. Unless we come to grips with this "terrible" doctrine, we will never even begin to understand the depths of what Jesus did for us on the cross. His body was being destroyed in the worst possible way, but that was a flea bite compared to what was happening to his soul. When he cried out that his God had forsaken him he was experiencing hell itself. But consider--if our debt for sin is so great that it is never paid off there, but our hell stretches on for eternity, then what are we to conclude from the fact that Jesus said the payment was "finished" (John 19:30) after only three hours? We learn that what he felt on the cross was far worse and deeper than all of our deserved hells put together.

[Maximilian]

Conclusion The doctrine of hell is crucial-without it we can't understand our complete dependence on God, the character and danger of even the smallest sins, and the true scope of the costly love of Jesus. Nevertheless, it is possible to stress the doctrine of hell in unwise ways. Many, for fear of doctrinal compromise, want to put all the emphasis on God's active judgment, and none on the self-chosen character of hell. Ironically, as we have seen, this unBiblical imbalance often makes it less of a deterrent to non-believers rather than more of one. And some can preach hell in such a way that people reform their lives only out of a self-interested fear of avoiding consequences, not out of love and loyalty to the one who embraced and experienced hell in our place. The distinction between those two motives is all-important. The first creates a moralist, the second a born-again believer.

We must come to grips with the fact that Jesus said more about hell than Daniel, Isaiah, Paul, John, Peter put together. Before we dismiss this, we have to realize we are saying to Jesus, the pre-eminent teacher of love and grace in history, "I am less barbaric than you, Jesus--I am more compassionate and wiser than you." Surely that should give us pause! Indeed, upon reflection, it is because of the doctrine of judgment and hell that Jesus' proclamations of grace and love are so astounding.

Just some fragments from his post... thought it was good enough to share.

[DAII]

Michael, here in Matthew 19 ... Christ uses Gehenna ... which is commonly viewed as the abode of the condemned?

Easton’s Bible Dictionary states:

Gehenna: (originally Ge bene Hinnom; i.e., "the valley of the sons of Hinnom"), a deep, narrow glen to the south of Jerusalem, where the idolatrous Jews offered their children in sacrifice to Molech (2 Chronicles 28:3; 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31; 19:2-6). This valley afterwards became the common receptacle for all the refuse of the city. Here the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning. It thus in process of time became the image of the place of everlasting destruction. In this sense it is used by our Lord in Matthew 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5. In these passages, and also in James 3:6, the word is uniformly rendered "hell," the Revised Version placing "Gehenna" in the margin.

Is this the everlasting fire which hell/Hades is cast into ... if so the "fire "seems unquenchable ... while the soul and body, as well as Hades/Hell are destroyed, in the "receptacle" heap.

Some say Gehenna is the the place in Hades that the rich man in the the parable of Lazarus and the rich .. was in.

What gives?

[Cindy]

I lived most of my childhood in fear. Because of the way evangelists preached about hell. I could never be good enough to not go to hell. Probably more than a few of us heard the stories about people having a chance to get saved, but rejected God instead. Then they died in a horrible car accident on their way home from church. That is not in any way a great way to view God.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I lived most of my childhood in fear. Because of the way evangelists preached about hell. I could never be good enough to not go to hell. Probably more than a few of us heard the stories about people having a chance to get saved, but rejected God instead. Then they died in a horrible car accident on their way home from church. That is not in any way a great way to view God.

Very sad, but very true.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen.

Jude was saying WE NEED FEAR for the lost souls, not instill fear in them.

I like what one wise old preacher told me. Preach hell, but only if you tell them about how to go to Heaven.

Quite correct Mike.

Jude 1:23 (ASV):

"... and some save, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

Jude 1:23 (NET):

"... save others by snatching them out of the fire; have mercy on others, coupled with a fear of God, hating even the clothes stained by the flesh."

The attitude of the one doing the preaching here ("with fear") is contrasted with the attitude of those who Jude is warning (Jude 1:12 = "without fear" or "without reverence").

WE, the believer who is reaching out to those whose garments are "spotted" are the ones who should "fear" (be in reverence) is the message of Jude.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I lived most of my childhood in fear. Because of the way evangelists preached about hell. I could never be good enough to not go to hell. Probably more than a few of us heard the stories about people having a chance to get saved, but rejected God instead. Then they died in a horrible car accident on their way home from church. That is not in any way a great way to view God.

Sadly, there was (and still is) a sort of competition among preachers over who could be the "toughest" about any particular subject. NA Urshan even remarked about this in a message he preached at GC back in the late 1970s where he observed the "fads" that "our preachers" go through. One such fad was the "Tough Preacher."

For whatever reason, this problem was of such a concern that Bro. Urshan preached the same message repeatedly around the country - including in our church when he visited there.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Book and chapter please?

coadie's just a stuck record. He doesn't even believe in a LITERAL interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2. He says so himself.