Has Hell Disappeared?

DAII · #1 09-20-2010, 02:05 PM

There seems to be a battle raging on FB and elsewhere ... at least in my own circle of friends on whether fear of hell should be a driving force behind The Message.

Phil Harrelson, noted con, wrote a blog entitled "Hell's Disappearing Act" on the matter just this month, writing:

Quote:

Hell has disappeared! Hell has been sanitized from the modern theological mind. Hell has become an off limits message for most pulpits. The sheep have either stated so publically to the other sheep or the sheep have privately inferred to the shepherd that this is not what they want to hear. The reasoning of the sheep goes in this manner, “We are so stressed out! We feel the pressure of moving from pasture to pasture. We are having babies and they are demanding our time. We are worried that the drought is going to wither and destroy all the grass. We have a shepherd who is always trying to lead us where we don’t want to go. The last things we want to hear about are ravenous wolves, bad waterholes, poisonous grass, and worrisome flies that will drive us mad. ”

Some shepherds have a tailor made view about this too. They say, “Keep it upbeat! Tell the sheep about the still waters, about the overrunning cups, and the mercy that chases the sheep.

More here .... http://barnabas14blog.blogspot.com/2...aring-act.html

I have my definite views on hell and believe that our message needs to lean heavenly on our hope and salvation without disregarding the various things God says in his Word regarding hell ... I do think we need to make the same distinctions the writers made between death/Hades/Gehenna/ Sheol/ etc.

but can we please stop using Jude 1:22 and 23 as proof text to say that fire and brimstone preaching and fear of hell is what the apostolic writer had in mind when he wrote this passage ... or somehow endorsing a "saving through fear" approach:

Quote:

And have mercy on some, who are doubting;

save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

Harrelson seemingly proof texts and misquotes it when he writes:

Quote:

Jude. . . said it like this. . . . others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire.

... and another recently on Facebook used it to defend the "fire and brimstone" stance.

In context, this is a command on how to we should deal with those devoid of the Spirit/apostates/mockers of the Gospel ... who corrupt their garment with this world.

This does not an endorsement make for a message riddled with condemnation and fear.

When will these guys get that their proof texting drowns out their message and tears down any credibility they do have?

Sorry Phil ... the apostolic writer did not say that ...

mfblume · #2 09-20-2010, 02:10 PM

Amen.

Jude was saying WE NEED FEAR for the lost souls, not instill fear in them.

I like what one wise old preacher told me. Preach hell, but only if you tell them about how to go to Heaven.

DAII · #3 09-20-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen.

Jude was saying WE NEED FEAR for the lost souls, not instill fear in them.

I like what one wise old preacher told me. Preach hell, but only if you tell them about how to go to Heaven.

I also think he's telling them to be watchful in their interactions to save these revilers ... have mercy with fear ... so as not contaminate themselves ... thus the connection to their "filthied, corrupted garments" to one without "blemish or spot" ... and heeding to his warning of not stumbling ... in the following verses (24,25)

Quote:

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to (B)make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with (C)great joy,

to the (D)only (E)God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, (F)be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, (G)before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Maximilian · #4 09-20-2010, 02:18 PM

"Fire & Brimstone" preacher, though not always theologically sound, had it's place during the Great Awakenings. Much of the Western world identified themselves as or with Christianity, yet were living dead to their faith. What happened, however, is that this timed approach turned into a movement and tradition within itself. "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" turned into "how to" for preachers, instead of letting it be a message that was affective for the time/place/context it was given.

Today, still about 70% of Americans identify themselves as some branch of Christianity (51% of adult population), but attitudes towards Christians by those who both practice the faith and those who are outside the faith (unbelievers) are drastically different. The skepticism, misunderstandings and even suspicion with Christians today is a bed we've made on our own. No matter how we slice it, saying you are Christian today doesn't make everyone your best friend right away. And among those who identify with Christianity, we are all over the map (and the number is unknown by those who "identify" with Christianity yet have no regular interaction with the faith, including regular gathering together with other Christians). The teachings of Jesus are muffeled and drowned out by activism, divisive theologies, charlatan charismatics, tv evangelists and endless disputes. Fire & Brimstone preaching isn't the best way to reach the masses today. We have got to do a better job of letting Jesus be lifted up again. His glory has been dimmed by so much crud and ........, that it's a good time to proclaim His Glory and get back to the message of His Good News.

That said, I appreciate what Keller has to say on the subject of hell:
http://www.redeemer.com/news_and_eve...e_of_hell.html

Truthseeker · #5 09-20-2010, 02:21 PM

preaching hell won't bring perfection/maturity, that's for sure.

coadie · #6 09-20-2010, 02:36 PM

2Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.

Jonah was told to send a message that they would be destroyed. Today is not the first we see men run from obedience.

4And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

Joel Osteen can't warn people of hell.

Truthseeker · #7 09-20-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coadie

2Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.

Jonah was told to send a message that they would be destroyed. Today is not the first we see men run from obedience.

4And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

Joel Osteen can't warn people of hell.

huh?

rgcraig · #8 09-20-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

huh?

LOL! I know.

coadie · #9 09-20-2010, 02:48 PM

We are already dealing with the fact that they don't believe Genesis about Creation and the flood.

So Jesus speaks of punishment and hell. He also speaks of heaven. He goes to prepare a place for those that are redeemed.

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Looks like the seeker sensitive churches can't touch this./

Truthseeker · #10 09-20-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coadie

We are already dealing with the fact that they don't believe Genesis about Creation and the flood.

So Jesus speaks of punishment and hell. He also speaks of heaven. He goes to prepare a place for those that are redeemed.

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Looks like the seeker sensitive churches can't touch this./

Weeping and gnashing of teeth just means judgement not literally gnashing of teeth.