For those that left the UPC... - Page 29

mfblume · #**281** 05-29-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Where is "seeking for the Holy Ghost" taught in scripture? Book, chapter and verse please.

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Falla39 · #**282** 05-29-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

I agree

Where is "seeking for the Holy Ghost" taught in scripture? Book, chapter and verse please.

And yes, those individuals who go to the altar and seek are seeking for tongues....it's all about tongues. Without that proof, they think themselves unforgiven and bound for hell. It's all about tongues in the unscriptural behavior of going to the altar and seeking and begging, night after night. Nothing in the bible about that type of salvation plan, brother.

I agree.

Some like who? Name names.

Not directing that at any one person. But some on this forum, through the
years, have sounded more like other denominations than Apostolic Pente-
costals. Never seen their faces, or talked to them in person, but by the
words spoken on here.

seekerman · #**283** 05-29-2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I disagree. You have circumstantial evidence, that's all. We need word. And the only Word we have is Acts 10 making tongues initial evidence.

No, it's not circumstantial evidence at all. You've presented Holy Ghost infilling accompanied by tongues in Acts 10. I presented Holy Ghost infilling without tongues in Acts 8.

Your argument seems to be from the position of silence. In other words, your argument is because it didn't say specifically that they did NOT speak in tongues in Acts 8, then they must have spoken in tongues. That's bad exegesis, brother. The fact of the matter is this, we have the account of the initial receiving of the Holy Ghost by individuals, through the laying on of hands of the Apostles with no tongues accompanying.

If we are going to argue from the position of silence, I could take Acts 8, interpret that as meaning that the Holy Ghost only comes with the laying on of hands and then conclude that the Apostles also gave the Holy Ghost with the laying on of hands in Acts 10 because Acts 10 doesn't say that they DID NOT lay on hands.

I submit that Acts 8:18 indicates that's the way individuals receive the Holy Ghost....by the laying on of hands by the Apostles. Therefore the laying on of hands was required in Acts 10, as it was in Acts 8, and it doesn't say it wasn't present in Acts 10. Therefore, without the laying on of hands the required tongues, as evidence to the person 'seeking' the Holy Ghost, cannot come forth.

Do you see where arguing from a position of silence in these scriptures will lead? Why not just let the scripture be scripture and neither of us add to them?

seekerman · #**284** 05-29-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Nothing there about 'seeking' for the Holy Ghost. There's no such teaching in the New Covenant. The practice of going to the altar and seeking and begging and seeking and begging until one speaks in tongues is nowhere in scripture.

Falla39 · #**285** 05-29-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

I agree

Where is "seeking for the Holy Ghost" taught in scripture? Book, chapter and verse please.

And yes, those individuals who go to the altar and seek are seeking for tongues....it's all about tongues. Without that proof, they think themselves unforgiven and bound for hell. It's all about tongues in the unscriptural behavior of going to the altar and seeking and begging, night after night. Nothing in the bible about that type of salvation plan, brother.

I agree.

Some like who? Name names.

Jeremiah 29:13

12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Jesus also said in the NT to ask, and it shall be given, Seek and ye shall
find, knock and the door would be open unto you.

What would cause a person to not ask or seek! Could it be PRIDE that
would cause a man or woman to humble themselves and kneel before their
Maker and ask or seek Him with their whole hearts.

We are to humble ourselves as little children (humble and open to Him).

Falla39

Falla39 · #**286** 05-29-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Nothing there about 'seeking' for the Holy Ghost. There's no such teaching in the New Covenant. The practice of going to the altar and seeking and begging and seeking and begging until one speaks in tongues is nowhere in scripture.

Then you may not receive the Holy Ghost! Don't ask, don't seek, and you
just may not find!

Not trying to be argumentive, just speaking the truth in love, if you can
receive it! If you have never spoken in tongues as the Spirit gave the utter-
ance, biblically you have NOT received the Acts 2 experience I received 52 yrs. ago!

It's more real today than it was when I first received it. My understanding is more clear
because of growing up in Him who is the Head of all principality and power, etc....! Reading
and applying His Word. Asking, Seeking, Knocking and finding more and more about Him. It
has SO enriched my life and those of my family. Blessings so abundant!

Falla39

mfblume · #**287** 05-29-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Nothing there about 'seeking' for the Holy Ghost. There's no such teaching in the New Covenant. The practice of going to the altar and seeking and begging and seeking and begging until one speaks in tongues is nowhere in scripture.

If you ask for something you are seeking for it. Come on. Both mean you do not have it and do something to the One who gives it.

jfrog · #**288** 05-29-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

No, it's not circumstantial evidence at all. You've presented Holy Ghost infilling accompanied by tongues in Acts 10. I presented Holy Ghost infilling without tongues in Acts 8.

Your argument seems to be from the position of silence. In other words, your argument is because it didn't say specifically that they did NOT speak in tongues in Acts 8, then they must have spoken in tongues. That's bad exegesis, brother. The fact of the matter is this, we have the account of the initial receiving of the Holy Ghost by individuals, through the laying on of hands of the Apostles with no tongues accompanying.

If we are going to argue from the position of silence, I could take Acts 8, interpret that as meaning that the Holy Ghost only comes with the laying on of hands and then conclude that the Apostles also gave the Holy Ghost with the laying on of hands in Acts 10 because Acts 10 doesn't say that they DID NOT lay on hands.

I submit that Acts 8:18 indicates that's the way individuals receive the Holy Ghost....by the laying on of hands by the Apostles. Therefore the laying on of hands was required in Acts 10, as it was in Acts 8, and it doesn't say it wasn't present in Acts 10. Therefore, without the laying on of hands the required tongues, as evidence to the person 'seeking' the Holy Ghost, cannot come forth.

Do you see where arguing from a position of silence in these scriptures will lead? Why not just let the scripture be scripture and neither of us add to them?

We also have in every account that the Holy Ghost was given, an apostle was present. You could also argue that the Holy Ghost can't be given without an apostle being present.

Acts 8 even gives circumstancial evidence for this doctrine. (They did not receive the Holy Ghost until the apostles were present).

mfblume · #**289** 05-29-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

No, it's not circumstantial evidence at all. You've presented Holy Ghost infilling accompanied by tongues in Acts 10. I presented Holy Ghost infilling without tongues in Acts 8.

You cannot use Acts 8. Sorry. It does not say they did not speak with tongues, and most scholars agree they did due to Simon's response. It does not PROVE they did, but more happened than hands on people, for sure.

Quote:

Your argument seems to be from the position of silence. In other words, your argument is because it didn't say specifically that they did NOT speak in tongues in Acts 8, then they must have spoken in tongues. That's bad exegesis, brother.

I did not argue that at all. lol. I gave my argument. Simon.

Quote:

The fact of the matter is this, we have the account of the initial receiving of the Holy Ghost by individuals, through the laying on of hands of the Apostles with no tongues accompanying.

Sorry, cannot use that. SOMETHING was seen to amaze Simon when that happened. This does not PROVE they spoke in tongues, but it does not deny it either.

Quote:

If we are going to argue from the position of silence, I could take Acts 8, interpret that as meaning that the Holy Ghost only comes with the laying on of hands and then conclude that the Apostles also gave the Holy Ghost with the laying on of hands in Acts 10 because Acts 10 doesn't say that they DID NOT lay on hands.

I did not argue from silence.

Quote:

I submit that Acts 8:18 indicates that's the way individuals receive the Holy Ghost....by the laying on of hands by the Apostles. Therefore the laying on of hands was required in Acts 10, as it was in Acts 8, and it doesn't say it wasn't present in Acts 10. Therefore, without the laying on of hands the required tongues, as evidence to the person 'seeking' the Holy Ghost, cannot come forth.

Okay, what was so amazing to Simon that he saw that laying on of hands caused them to receive the Spirit? He saw more amazing things than that and never popted to buy them.

Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Act 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

I never knew that simply seeing someone laying hands on someone was more amazing than seeing demons scream out of people and lame healed!

Quote:

Do you see where arguing from a position of silence in these scriptures will lead? Why not just let the scripture be scripture and neither of us add to them?

I am not arguing from silence.

mfblume · #**290** 05-29-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

We always have in every account that the Holy Ghost was given, an apostle was present. You could also argue that the Holy Ghost can't be given without apostles being present.

No you cannot. That would violate the entire ethic of God, since people will not always have an apostle around, (though they still exist today).