Any group of "men" that includes "Aestheticterrorists" is bound to have an angeda. When your fashion styles are driven by political and social agendas then the end result is often not very useful.
However, when fashion is driven by the core cultural needs of a society (like modesty) and by the conditions of their environment, then the resulting cothing will tend to make more sense.
For example: In the Bronze Age (the days of Abraham through the Judges, roughly) men and women in the Levant wore robe and tunic style appeal. This made sense given the way the cloth was woven and provided garments that could be used for a variety of purposes. For example a cloak could be used as a long and cool sun shade during the day and pulled close or used blanket style for warmth at night.
Since both men and women had the same pastoral and nomadic lifestyle their garments were similar in cut, but differed in stylist embellishments - for example the veil (Genesis 24:65). If you went into the family tent to grab a cloak you would have been able to readily discern which cloaks belonged to the female family members and which to the males. But the cut-out patterns and seams were often similar.
In the cities the needs were a bit different for the different classes of people. In Egypt, those of the trading class and aristocracy wore pleated skirts:
The higher up in rank you went, the "softer" (or some would say "more effeminate") the styles for the men were. In some ways this pattern has been carried down even to taday - just look at some of our "Rock Stars."
If the legendary aspects of Abraham's family life are even close to accurate, his father Terah was a merchant and artisan in Ur. Thus Abraham and Sarah probably looked something like this before taking up the life of wilderness nomads.
I dare say, if a couple appeared on the street in a downtown area today they would not be called "cross dressers" at all, but rather the man's masculine features would be seen to be emphasized by his apparel. Also note: unlike Egypt, the man's skirt which is pleated almost exclusively in Mesopotamia.
One point that obviously stands out is that when a man came of age- he was expected to wear a beard to provide a point of distinction about his manliness. None of this shaving of the face smooth as ordered by the Popes and as introduced into popular fashion by sexually promiscuious members of the aristocracy.
Adam agrees with you about the face hair!
Adam Clark -
Verse 5. The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man—....It is, however, a very good general precept understood literally, and applies particularly to those countries where the dress alone distinguishes between the male and the female. The close-shaved gentleman may at any time appear like a woman in the female dress, and the woman appear as a man in the male’s attire. Were this to be tolerated in society, it would produce the greatest confusion. Clodius, who dressed himself like a woman that he might mingle with the Roman ladies in the feast of the Bona Dea, was universally execrated.
thanks.. and as far as grace... i would express my views more...but I totally believe in backing by scripture.. so it would take me some time... time that I don't have right now.
I just don't believe in dismissing the law because we are now under Grace. Law was the schoolmaster... anything under the law which was sin would never become "ok" under Grace... God doesn't work that way... we won't ever go backwards but always forward... a true relationship with Jesus under Grace will always require a deeper committment than being under law...because it is a heart issue.
Example:
1. You don't committ adultury under law... under grace...even looking upon a woman is adultry..because it is in the heart.
2. Tithing (10%) commanded of the old becomes you give your all as the Apostles did in the book of Acts.
The committment of the heart will require more of you than the law ever imposed.
Oh My ! I know I shouldn't jump into this subject. I'm probably going to be kicking myself tomorrow, but here goes.
Beep Beep Beep !!! Thread Hyjack Alert,
The purpose of the Law was to show man the hopelessness of his condition. To cause him to capitulate, to come to Christ, throw up his hands in surrender and say, "God I can't do it, you'll have to do it. That's the schoolmaster thing. Jesus just refined that, by showing how much more impossible it was for us to save ourselves by performance of the Law. Jesus ministered under the Law. There was no Grace until Jesus rose from the dead.
The Law was based totally on performance. If you do this, then this will happen to you. If you don't do that, then these things will come upon you. If you try to do this and fail to perform, then you are cursed. You are just as guilty as if you hadn't tried at all. It is hopeless.
You can't keep the Law. I can't keep the Law. Felicity can't keep the Law. Rev can't keep the Law. Steven Hooper can't keep the Law. Bro Blume can't keep the Law. Bro Epley can't keep the Law. Nobody on AFF can keep the Law. Not even IAM. Jesus was the only one who ever kept the Law. Jesus ended the Law for righteousness to the believer. He blotted out the handwriting of ordinances, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his tree.
Now, if none of us could keep the Law, how could Grace require more? Grace requires nothing of us except to come to Jesus, surrender, rest in His ability and believe that His work of redemption was good enough to save us without our own self righteousness. Just like the publican who smote his breast and said, "God be merciful to me a sinner". The more we can get ourselves out of the way and let Jesus live His life through us, the more He get's the glory and not us.
__________________
The Gospel of Jesus Christ: Jesus bore away my sins, my sickness, and my poverty. That covers it all. Everything else is just legalism.
Oh My ! I know I shouldn't jump into this subject. I'm probably going to be kicking myself tomorrow, but here goes.
Beep Beep Beep !!! Thread Hyjack Alert,
The purpose of the Law was to show man the hopelessness of his condition. To cause him to capitulate, to come to Christ, throw up his hands in surrender and say, "God I can't do it, you'll have to do it. That's the schoolmaster thing. Jesus just refined that, by showing how much more impossible it was for us to save ourselves by performance of the Law. Jesus ministered under the Law. There was no Grace until Jesus rose from the dead.
The Law was based totally on performance. If you do this, then this will happen to you. If you don't do that, then these things will come upon you. If you try to do this and fail to perform, then you are cursed. You are just as guilty as if you hadn't tried at all. It is hopeless.
You can't keep the Law. I can't keep the Law. Felicity can't keep the Law. Rev can't keep the Law. Steven Hooper can't keep the Law. Bro Blume can't keep the Law. Bro Epley can't keep the Law. Nobody on AFF can keep the Law. Not even IAM. Jesus was the only one who ever kept the Law. Jesus ended the Law for righteousness to the believer. He blotted out the handwriting of ordinances, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his tree.
Now, if none of us could keep the Law, how could Grace require more? Grace requires nothing of us except to come to Jesus, surrender, rest in His ability and believe that His work of redemption was good enough to save us without our own self righteousness. Just like the publican who smote his breast and said, "God be merciful to me a sinner". The more we can get ourselves out of the way and let Jesus live His life through us, the more He get's the glory and not us.
Oh My ! I know I shouldn't jump into this subject. I'm probably going to be kicking myself tomorrow, but here goes.
Beep Beep Beep !!! Thread Hyjack Alert,
The purpose of the Law was to show man the hopelessness of his condition. To cause him to capitulate, to come to Christ, throw up his hands in surrender and say, "God I can't do it, you'll have to do it. That's the schoolmaster thing. Jesus just refined that, by showing how much more impossible it was for us to save ourselves by performance of the Law. Jesus ministered under the Law. There was no Grace until Jesus rose from the dead.
The Law was based totally on performance. If you do this, then this will happen to you. If you don't do that, then these things will come upon you. If you try to do this and fail to perform, then you are cursed. You are just as guilty as if you hadn't tried at all. It is hopeless.
You can't keep the Law. I can't keep the Law. Felicity can't keep the Law. Rev can't keep the Law. Steven Hooper can't keep the Law. Bro Blume can't keep the Law. Bro Epley can't keep the Law. Nobody on AFF can keep the Law. Not even IAM. Jesus was the only one who ever kept the Law. Jesus ended the Law for righteousness to the believer. He blotted out the handwriting of ordinances, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his tree.
Now, if none of us could keep the Law, how could Grace require more? Grace requires nothing of us except to come to Jesus, surrender, rest in His ability and believe that His work of redemption was good enough to save us without our own self righteousness. Just like the publican who smote his breast and said, "God be merciful to me a sinner". The more we can get ourselves out of the way and let Jesus live His life through us, the more He get's the glory and not us.
We are more on the same page than you think... In the bolded area above, I believe that Grace requires a total surrender... Total surrender to him and his way out of love, is getting self out of the way. I have to die daily, walk in the Spirit so that I am more like him.
I stand fast in the liberty with which Christ has set me free, but that doesn't give me the right to dismiss principles of the law.
Since the changes in my life through personal study and a clearer understanding of Grace... I am actually far more liberal in areas that upci takes such firm stand on, and more conservative in things that many people in church do or accept as normal. Hard to explain that one I know...but there was a heart change... I don't try to earn my salvation... his love compels me to live according to his will.
such as I usually wear my long hair.
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