Dire Prophecies and Good Intentions: 6 Years Later

[Dichotomy Girl]

NOW
(5 Years and 344 days later)
05/22/13

Name: Dichotomy Girl
Age: 38
Relationship Status: Happily married to Josh
Children: A daughter, Avery, who will be 2 on 6/12. The best surprise of my life!
Spirituality: It's Complicated!

A little bit of a timeline:

6/12/2007: Posted that I left the UPC
8/15/2008: Matthew and I separated
10/31/2008: Divorce was Final
4/18/2010: First Date with Josh, an atheist.
9/2010: Josh and I started "shacking up"
11/1/2010: Found out that after over 12 years of infertility I was (accidentally)8 weeks pregnant.
11/11/2010: Quickie marriage at the court house so that I could take advantage of Josh's awesome medical insurance.
6/12/2011: Avery was born, perfect in every way.
5/22/2012: Enjoying life and my family.

But there is so much between the lines of that timeline! I guess it's harder than I thought to quickly summarize everything that's happened to you in 6 years. Though I bet some preachers could do it pretty fast: "She started questioning standards, then came the doctrine, then she left church completely. It wasn't too much later that she got divorced, dated and then shacked up with an Atheist, and got pregnant out of wedlock!" (i'm not sure at this point if then marrying the Atheist would be considered a bigger sin!).

So on the one hand, I can say that the dire predictions were probably a bit understated, I think they figured that I'd just go charismatic, maybe get a few piercings and a tattoo.

I suppose most would think my life something to repent of, or to feel shame for. And though I have many regrets in life, my husband and daughter are not one of them. I have learned that marriage (though it can still be hard at times) can be a wonderful, awesome thing, and how much a difference it makes when you love each other!

I think I've learned true humility and sacrifice. Oh, I sacrificed tons of stuff in my first marriage, I was quite the martyr, but I didn't do it for my ex-husband who I resented and despised, I did it out of a sense of duty, or because I felt it was an expectation of God. And my daughter, she was the answer to a prayer I hadn't even enough faith to pray for. I'd often lamented the fact that I would never have children, but I'd given up that dream many years before.

I guess I'll break the spiritual part into another post.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Before I left the UPC, I had a lot of anger and hurt over the things that I had experienced. I wasn't really made at any individual people, I just viewed them as products of their environment. But I was really very angry at God. I had come to view him as a cruel and capricious bully that was enjoyed stepping on us for sport. I got to the point where I believed that either God was this horrible person that I'd come to believe, or I had no earthly idea who He actually was. But I didn't really know how to fix it.

I'm not sure I ever shared this story, but I spent several years hemming and hawing trying wanting to leave but afraid, thinking I should, then becoming convinced that I shouldn't, but all the time yearning for something that was missing.

My last time in a UPC service (before leaving) was actually not even at my home church. I was back in Wisconsin visiting, and attended a church where I had several friends. The Late Jack Yonts was preaching, and his sermons was on the story in the Gospels about the sick man that they lower through the roof to get to Jesus? And I admit, I tuned out of the service as Bro. Yonts was talking about bringing your friends to church, and I felt like God spoke to me, and told me, that I was like that paralyzed man, that I had been trying so hard, desperately to get to Him, but that my way was being blocked by the "Scribes and Pharisees". And I felt like He told me that if I wanted to get to Him, that I was going to have to take an unorthodox route.

I had a lot of fear at first, stepping out into the unknown, and feeling very untethered. In the beginning I prayed this prayer a lot.

Merton’s Prayer

My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me, I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road, though I may know nothing about it. Therefore I will trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone. (Thoughts in Solitude, Thomas Merton, 81)

But I was still so angry, that it was really hard to ever move forward. I would try to read the bible, or pray, or talk to other Christians, and I found it nearly impossible to consider any spiritual matters without them going through the filter of the past.

Ultimately, I found that when it came to God/Spiritual matters I was like this huge wound, and the more I poked at it, the less it healed. So for a few years, 2009 and into the early part of 2012, I avoided anything that had to do with Christianity. I didn't open a Bible, I didn't listen to Christian music, I didn't attend a church ,or listen to any kind of preaching, or pray (in anything but an extremely generic "Oh God don't let me be late" kind of way).

I'm not saying I recommend that method for those who have had very negative experiences, in fact it might be a horrible idea, and I'm not even saying it's what God had in mind or wanted for me. But regardless, it worked. Sometime in 2012, I realized that I could hear scriptures, or music, and no long have any of those PTSD-esque trigger responses. That I no longer see through that angry and hurt filter. I'm not bitter, I'm not angry. I'm actually kind of neutral.

So when it comes to Apostolic Doctrine (or Christian Doctrine for that matter), so I still believe any of it?

Oneness: I do kind of think this one is semantics. However, because my only experience in Christianity has been in the UPC, and because I had some very negative feelings towards God at one time, for me it all comes down to Jesus. Jesus being God is pretty much the only thing that I never questioned, where my faith never wavered. When Paul sounds like a Sexist, and the God of the OT is being all genocidal, I just focus on the Character of Jesus. (I really like the verse about Him being the image of the Invisible God)

Baptism: I think it's a symbol, currently I have no feelings mode or formula.

Spirit Baptism & Tongues: This is a big one that people question, that yes, there were definitely times that I've questioned it. I think I posted a thread last year after reading some article about how scientists believe that it is learned behavior, and how that really upset me. But for me, it ultimately comes down to faith, which I believe is a choice. I know that something inside me changed when I got the Holy Ghost. I did speak in tongues. I still speak in tongues...even during the healing years. But I don't claim to understand it. (I confess, I don't love the fact that my husband thinks I'm a little bit crazy.)

The Bible: This part I think will be the most upsetting for a lot of people here. This is one of the areas that I struggled with the most. I had a lot of problems thinking of the Bible as the AUTHORITATIVE WORD OF GOD, and the way that most conservative Christians use it as a rule book or instruction manual. I couldn't accept it as that, but I couldn't dismiss it either. So I was kind of at an impasse for many years. Currently, I view it as a collection of writings that show mankind's search for a relationship with God. As such I do not think it inerrant, and I do find it somewhat mutable. (i.e. we don't practice slavery even though the Bible doesn't condemn the practice)

I guess, that I believe that the purpose of the Bible is to encourage us to seek Jesus, to lead us into relationship with Him through the infilling of His Spirit. I think that is what God intended to be our teacher, Guide, and Comforter.

Repentance, Salvation, Hell, Etc.: My thoughts on these are works in progress, as are many other things, because for me it has become about more How to live with the Questions, then it is to needing to know the answers. But I believe that there will be a reckoning and some kind of judgment, but I don't believe that it will involve conscious eternal torment. Which means I don't really focus on repentance and salvation, but more on relationship.

And Standards aren't even on my radar anymore.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

The Bible: This part I think will be the most upsetting for a lot of people here. This is one of the areas that I struggled with the most. I had a lot of problems thinking of the Bible as the AUTHORITATIVE WORD OF GOD, and the way that most conservative Christians use it as a rule book or instruction manual. I couldn't accept it as that, but I couldn't dismiss it either. So I was kind of at an impasse for many years. Currently, I view it as a collection of writings that show mankind's search for a relationship with God. As such I do not think it inerrant, and I do find it somewhat mutable. (i.e. we don't practice slavery even though the Bible doesn't condemn the practice)

I guess, that I believe that the purpose of the Bible is to encourage us to seek Jesus, to lead us into relationship with Him through the infilling of His Spirit. I think that is what God intended to be our teacher, Guide, and Comforter.

Repentance, Salvation, Hell, Etc.: My thoughts on these are works in progress, as are many other things, because for me it has become about more How to live with the Questions, then it is to needing to know the answers. But I believe that there will be a reckoning and some kind of judgment, but I don't believe that it will involve conscious eternal torment. Which means I don't really focus on repentance and salvation, but more on relationship.

And Standards aren't even on my radar anymore.

I am not a bible literalist... and I know it freaks other Christians out. I also don't buy into an eternal tormenting hell... another thing that makes me an oddball... But I have to live with myself and I just can't lie lie to conform to the popular opinion... So it is what it is. Glad to meet someone else that is willing to say they that they just don't buy it. Thanks.

[ILG]

Ultimately, I found that when it came to God/Spiritual matters I was like this huge wound, and the more I poked at it, the less it healed. So for a few years, 2009 and into the early part of 2012, I avoided anything that had to do with Christianity. I didn't open a Bible, I didn't listen to Christian music, I didn't attend a church ,or listen to any kind of preaching, or pray (in anything but an extremely generic "Oh God don't let me be late" kind of way).

Mich, you and I have traveled very similar paths in this....for me, it has been best to just leave it all. We haven't attended church regularly for a couple of years and, contrary to what some here would say, it has been a great decision for us. I felt like God had to just kick me to get me to finally not go back. It's a story in itself, but is very contrary to what we are normally taught.

I'm not saying I recommend that method for those who have had very negative experiences, in fact it might be a horrible idea, and I'm not even saying it's what God had in mind or wanted for me. But regardless, it worked. Sometime in 2012, I realized that I could hear scriptures, or music, and no long have any of those PTSD-esque trigger responses. That I no longer see through that angry and hurt filter. I'm not bitter, I'm not angry. I'm actually kind of neutral.

I still get PTSD sometimes but have actually been listening to some old Christian music on CD the last few weeks and actually been enjoying it. But I don't see myself stepping foot into a church anytime soon.

So when it comes to Apostolic Doctrine (or Christian Doctrine for that matter), so I still believe any of it?

Oneness: I do kind of think this one is semantics. However, because my only experience in Christianity has been in the UPC, and because I had some very negative feelings towards God at one time, for me it all comes down to Jesus. Jesus being God is pretty much the only thing that I never questioned, where my faith never wavered. When Paul sounds like a Sexist, and the God of the OT is being all genocidal, I just focus on the Character of Jesus. (I really like the verse about Him being the image of the Invisible God)

Baptism: I think it's a symbol, currently I have no feelings mode or formula.

Spirit Baptism & Tongues: This is a big one that people question, that yes, there were definitely times that I've questioned it. I think I posted a thread last year after reading some article about how scientists believe that it is learned behavior, and how that really upset me. But for me, it ultimately comes down to faith, which I believe is a choice. I know that something inside me changed when I got the Holy Ghost. I did speak in tongues. I still speak in tongues...even during the healing years. But I don't claim to understand it. (I confess, I don't love the fact that my husband thinks I'm a little bit crazy.)

The Bible: This part I think will be the most upsetting for a lot of people here. This is one of the areas that I struggled with the most. I had a lot of problems thinking of the Bible as the AUTHORITATIVE WORD OF GOD, and the way that most conservative Christians use it as a rule book or instruction manual. I couldn't accept it as that, but I couldn't dismiss it either. So I was kind of at an impasse for many years. Currently, I view it as a collection of writings that show mankind's search for a relationship with God. As such I do not think it inerrant, and I do find it somewhat mutable. (i.e. we don't practice slavery even though the Bible doesn't condemn the practice)

I guess, that I believe that the purpose of the Bible is to encourage us to seek Jesus, to lead us into relationship with Him through the infilling of His Spirit. I think that is what God intended to be our teacher, Guide, and Comforter.

Repentance, Salvation, Hell, Etc.: My thoughts on these are works in progress, as are many other things, because for me it has become about more How to live with the Questions, then it is to needing to know the answers. But I believe that there will be a reckoning and some kind of judgment, but I don't believe that it will involve conscious eternal torment. Which means I don't really focus on repentance and salvation, but more on relationship.

And Standards aren't even on my radar anymore.

I see some of this quite similarly. Mostly, I find the questions not pressing and not very important. I find God to still be central in my life but I don't really care about much of this stuff anymore. It's an interesting exercise to think about it but I don't think about it too much.

It's good to see you around again! I've always enjoyed your writing.

[Monterrey]

Just curious,

Why did you use a ying/yang for your symbol?

Just wondering.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Just curious,

Why did you use a ying/yang for your symbol?

Just wondering.

I guess I always felt that it kind of went with the Name Dichotomy Girl. As the Yin/Yang kind of represents two mutually exclusive things. (The symbol holds no personal spiritual or philosophical meaning for me)

[RandyWayne]

Before I left the UPC, I had a lot of anger and hurt over the things that I had experienced. I wasn't really made at any individual people, I just viewed them as products of their environment. But I was really very angry at God. I had come to view him as a cruel and capricious bully that was enjoyed stepping on us for sport. I got to the point where I believed that either God was this horrible person that I'd come to believe, or I had no earthly idea who He actually was. But I didn't really know how to fix it.

What is funny is that my experience is nearly, if not completely, 180 degrees different from yours in that I left the UPC with NO anger toward God Himself. Where my anger did lie, was with the people and more importantly the system. To this day, I despise the pastor-centric form of church where the "man of gawd!" is the ring leader and all his minions play the part of mind numb robots. That doesn't mean I despise pastors as long as they realize where their authority ends and if/when they don't know where it ends, I've also unfortunately realized that most people are too ignorant to understand where it ends either and will blindly follow him, especially once the horror stories start flowing from the pulpit about someone who questioned the "man of gawd!" and was promptly struck down in some manner.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

What is funny is that my experience is nearly, if not completely, 180 degrees different from yours in that I left the UPC with NO anger toward God Himself. Where my anger did lie, was with the people and more importantly the system. To this day, I despise the pastor-centric form of church where the "man of gawd!" is the ring leader and all his minions play the part of mind numb robots. That doesn't mean I despise pastors as long as they realize where their authority ends and if/when they don't know where it ends, I've also unfortunately realized that most people are too ignorant to understand where it ends either and will blindly follow him, especially once the horror stories start flowing from the pulpit about someone who questioned the "man of gawd!" and was promptly struck down in some manner.

Well, notice that even though I have no bitterness or anger towards people, I am not attending a church (well, at all), but I don't think that I would thrive in that kind of environment either. I fully confess, I do not like being told what to do! (But I am open minded, so if you discuss it rationally with me, I may be persuaded).

In fact, my husband and I joke. I used to consider myself a Libertarian when I was more conservative, because I don't like the government telling me what to do. Now I say that I'm a Narcissistic Anarchist, because I don't want anyone telling me what to do, (But I want to tell everyone else what to do), at which point he tells me...that actually makes me a "Fascist" and I say "You have your labels...I have mine...."

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

Well, notice that even though I have no bitterness or anger towards people, I am not attending a church (well, at all), but I don't think that I would thrive in that kind of environment either. I fully confess, I do not like being told what to do! (But I am open minded, so if you discuss it rationally with me, I may be persuaded).

In fact, my husband and I joke. I used to consider myself a Libertarian when I was more conservative, because I don't like the government telling me what to do. Now I say that I'm a Narcissistic Anarchist, because I don't want anyone telling me what to do, (But I want to tell everyone else what to do), at which point he tells me...that actually makes me a "Fascist" and I say "You have your labels...I have mine...."

You bring up some good points. A few things actually: Very few people like being told "what to do", those few who DO enjoy it all tend to be a bit creepy. Think of the young Norman Bates from Bates Hotel where he says "Mother, I like it when you tell me what to do". Now I do believe that the same percentage of those who don't like being "bosses around" appreciate getting good direction in life. The difference is the person telling someone what to do is a person who is on a authoritarian kick while the person giving good direction is being a wise councilor. THAT is how a pastor should be, and I have met many who are indeed like that. I've also met more than my share of the first kind.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

Well, notice that even though I have no bitterness or anger towards people, I am not attending a church (well, at all), but I don't think that I would thrive in that kind of environment either. I fully confess, I do not like being told what to do! (But I am open minded, so if you discuss it rationally with me, I may be persuaded).

In fact, my husband and I joke. I used to consider myself a Libertarian when I was more conservative, because I don't like the government telling me what to do. Now I say that I'm a Narcissistic Anarchist, because I don't want anyone telling me what to do, (But I want to tell everyone else what to do), at which point he tells me...that actually makes me a "Fascist" and I say "You have your labels...I have mine...."

Dichotomy Girl,

Have you ever considered or attended a house church?