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  #181  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:52 PM
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  #182  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Why am I on this subject? I was recently in a service where the speaker said that a woman looks like a w**** if she doesn't wear a dress. Sadly, a young woman present was the only one wearing pants, besides the men - ouch!

I then decided, since I knew the girl that was present and I knew she wasn't a whore - what exactly would I teach on this issue knowing I must answer to God for that woman's soul - if it were my responsibility? Or better yet, would I stand emphatically on what I have been taught concerning Deut 22:5 and say it is speaking of pants? Very interesting what I found.

I've listed all definitions, below for the word "wear" used in the OT with pertaining scriptures referenced above each Strong's definition.

The definition for the word "wear", hâyâh - 1961, in Deut 22:5 is used one time and only in this passage. It does not mean to simply put on clothing. In the broad sense it means" to exist or become". It also comes from another primary root - hava havah - 1933 - "to breathe, in the sense of existence".

Therefore, I believe the passage in Deut 22:5 is speaking of homosexuality and not simply "putting on some clothing". It implies a deeper meaning.

The normal use of the word "wear", lâbash lâbêsh- 3847, "to put on a garment"
is only referred to in Deut 22:11, Esther 6:8, Isaiah 4:1, and Zechariah 14:4. See definition below.

None of this study leads me away from the issue of modesty. Tight jeans are immodest. What I do want to do is avoid using a scripture, erroneously, to support a doctrine I want to stand for.

In other words, I cannot and will not look at someone in the face and say they are going to hell for wearing pants or that they are a w****, but I will tell them they will struggle spiritually if they do not follow the tenets of the NT teachings concerning modesty.


Deut 22:5

H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'

A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

H1933
הוה הוא
hâvâ' hâvâh
haw-vaw', haw-vaw'

A primitive root (compare H183, H1961) supposed to mean properly to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence): - be, X have.



Deut 22:11
Esther 6:8
Isaiah 4:1
Zechariah 14:4


H3847
לבשׁ לבשׁ
lâbash lâbêsh
law-bash', law-bashe'

A primitive root; properly wrap around, that is, (by implication) to put on a garment or clothe (oneself, or another), literally or figuratively: - (in) apparel, arm, array (self), clothe (self), come upon, put (on, upon), wear.


Exodus 18:18


H5034
נבל
nâbêl
naw-bale'

A primitive root; to wilt; generally to fall away, fail, faint; figuratively to be foolish or (morally) wicked; causatively to despise, disgrace: - disgrace, dishonour, lightly esteem, fade (away, -ing), fall (down, -ling, off), do foolishly, come to nought, X surely, make vile, wither.


I Sam 2:28
I Sam 22:18


H5375
נסה נשׂא
nâśâ' nâsâh
naw-saw', naw-saw'

A primitive root; to lift, in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively, absolutely and relatively: - accept, advance, arise, (able to, [armour], suffer to) bear (-er, up), bring (forth), burn, carry (away), cast, contain, desire, ease, exact, exalt (self), extol, fetch, forgive, furnish, further, give, go on, help, high, hold up, honourable (+ man), lade, lay, lift (self) up, lofty, marry, magnify, X needs, obtain, pardon, raise (up), receive, regard, respect, set (up), spare, stir up, + swear, take (away, up), X utterly, wear, yield.

Job 14:19

H7833
שׁחק
shâchaq
shaw-khak'

A primitive root; to comminute (by trituration or attrition): - beat, wear.
Uh. Hayah is the Hebrew word used for I AM that I AM in our english bibles...weird that it would be translated wear. Did the woman leave and not come back? I think it is the dumbest thing for a preacher to approach standards and clothing like that when you have new people sitting there (or any other time)...Im sure they did not come to church to be called a prostitute in front of a bunch of strangers

On that verse Keil and Delitzsch say
Deu_22:5
As the property of a neighbour was to be sacred in the estimation of an Israelite, so also the divine distinction of the sexes, which was kept sacred in civil life by the clothing peculiar to each sex, was to be not less but even more sacredly observed. “There shall not be man's things upon a woman, and a man shall not put on a woman's clothes.” כּלי does not signify clothing merely, nor arms only, but includes every kind of domestic and other utensils (as in Exo_22:6; Lev_11:32; Lev_13:49). The immediate design of this prohibition was not to prevent licentiousness, or to oppose idolatrous practices (the proofs which Spencer has adduced of the existence of such usages among heathen nations are very far-fetched); but to maintain the sanctity of that distinction of the sexes which was established by the creation of man and woman, and in relation to which Israel was not to sin. Every violation or wiping out of this distinction - such even, for example, as the emancipation of a woman - was unnatural, and therefore an abomination in the sight of God.
--------------
Probably the translation should mean then "there shall not be on" or "no clothing pertaining to a man will be on" or something to that effect. So to translate this as wear is a bad translation, not that it really matters for the meaning
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  #183  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:54 PM
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This thread "Wears" on me.
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  #184  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:55 PM
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I've been in services where people were told that they had the spirit of a harlot for wearing black pantyhose. .....We heard that only hookers wore them....Denim was the spirit of a homosexual. So sad.
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  #185  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:55 PM
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I don't know but I think the thread about clothes isn't the issue, but perhaps some wisdom? Compassion?
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  #186  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:57 PM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron View Post
I don't know but I think the thread about clothes isn't the issue, but perhaps some wisdom? Compassion?
Good point.
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  #187  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahElizabeth View Post
I've been in services where people were told that they had the spirit of a harlot for wearing black pantyhose. .....We heard that only hookers wore them....Denim was the spirit of a homosexual. So sad.
I heard of a service nearby where a woman in the church was publically said to have a demon or spirit, while she was there in front of the congregation. She left and never returned
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #188  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:58 PM
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Of course you know that there is a rebuttal argument to the points made in the initial post, right? There would have to be after all.

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  #189  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:59 PM
SarahElizabeth
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A woman was pointed out to me as having a demonic spirit when I first started to church and I avoided her...Not so sure it was true, but maybe it was. I dunno. Looking back, I dunno.
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  #190  
Old 07-11-2007, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahElizabeth View Post
I've been in services where people were told that they had the spirit of a harlot for wearing black pantyhose. .....We heard that only hookers wore them....Denim was the spirit of a homosexual. So sad.


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