Question concerning an evangelist & pastor - Page 18

Old Paths · #**171** 09-20-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

it was the who and how and why that was important, not how many... they were John's followers, who believed but were not baptized or spirit-filled, and it is there to show that you do, in fact, need to be baptized (and then spirit-filled) to be right...

Yikes!

I agree, but it was YOU that was making such a big deal about numbers as if one, two, three or ten was insignificant or not real Apostolic results.

Matt 18:11-14

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
KJV

stmatthew · #**172** 09-20-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

It wasn't stupid, it was to make a point...

Why do we say that we are seeing the same thing they did when we aren't???

And why are there groups that have had over 100,000,000 people speak in tongues since the mid-70s and we're still stuck at 20,000,000 people??? Why is God giving them more of an increase than he's giving us?

How many have you won to God?? How many have you baptized?? How many have you helped pray through to the Holy Ghost??

Until you start producing some significant numbers, you have no right to be telling an evangelist "how to do it right" that has likely been instrumental in winning more souls that your post count.

This was your issue before. You want to tell everyone just how wrong they are, and how they are doing nothing right, but you never have qualified yourself by telling us how you are having those 3000 soul revivals. Until you are, quit telling these men of God just how sorry they are.

and by the way, I am quite sure that 1 that gets baptized in Jesus name and received the holy ghost gets just as much applause from heaven as the 3000+ at Pentecost.

#**173** 09-20-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

How many have you won to God?? How many have you baptized?? How many have you helped pray through to the Holy Ghost??

Until you start producing some significant numbers, you have no right to be telling an evangelist "how to do it right" that has likely been instrumental in winning more souls that your post count.

This was your issue before. You want to tell everyone just how wrong they are, and how they are doing nothing right, but you never have qualified yourself by telling us how you are having those 3000 soul revivals. Until you are, quit telling these men of God just how sorry they are.

and by the way, I am quite sure that 1 that gets baptized in Jesus name and received the holy ghost gets just as much applause from heaven as the 3000+ at Pentecost.

see, its funny... I'm not criticizing at all... I'm just questioning why what we do is so minor incomparison to what they did... I mean... hey, let's not look at # of souls, let's look at what they actually did...

Peter walked around and healed people when his SHADOW PASSED OVER THEM... he also walked on water...

Paul was shipwrecked, snake-bitten, poisoned, and who knows what else...

John the Revelator was boiled in a pot of boiling oil, didn't work... they tried to have lions eat him, didn't work... and eventually they just sent him off to Patmos... why? BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T KILL HIM! He was unable to be killed...

What I'm saying isn't a criticism... I'm thankful for every sould that gets saved and every miracle that happens, but the fact of the matter is that we are NOT the church of the book of Acts in terms of power, what we have is merely a fraction of what they have...

And you can say "you need to do something before you say that" all you want, that doesn't change the FACT that its true...

and the fact that this person that I was talking to is an evangelist willing to judge people and speak ill of someone who he has never met, knows nothing about, and doesn't even know the person's name is a sad statement about our organization and our people... That we let people with that kind of hate and bitterness into our midst and don't even think twice... but, BY GOD, don't you dare wear a pair of pants ladies...

It isn't that they're sorry, its that there is something that isn't all there with us, and until we are willing to admit that and figure out what it is, its never gonna change... I'm glad you're happy to sit in your little fraternity room and slam people who have never been (and probably never will be) given the chance to stand where you are no matter how called they might be because they see that we aren't what we claim to be, and you can keep doing that...

But that doesn't change that we don't have the power we claim to have, we don't have the anointing we claim to have, and we aren't the people we claim to be...

Steve Epley · #**174** 09-20-2007, 09:49 PM

He is waiting on the great worldwide endtime revival to come before he goes to work. We are way tooooooooooooooooooo small to count. THINK BIG!!!!!
And do LITTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:gclock:bedt ime

Evang.Benincasa · #**175** 09-20-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

see, its funny... I'm not criticizing at all... I'm just questioning why what we do is so minor incomparison to what they did... I mean... hey, let's not look at # of souls, let's look at what they actually did...

Peter walked around and healed people when his SHADOW PASSED OVER THEM...

We have no indication by what scriptural information we are given that Peter's shadow did the people any good. If you read the scripture again you find no where in the verse that the shadow of Peter healed anyone. It was all done on the part of those who were bringing the sick forward to be healed. Peter never instructs anyone to allow his shadow to pass over anyone in hopes that the person would be healed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

he also walked on water...

Peter really attempted to walk on water, he was distracted by the winds and the waves and became frightened and began to sink beneath the waves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

Paul was shipwrecked, snake-bitten, poisoned, and who knows what else...

Shipwrecked, I agree with and the snakebite was not intentional, but when was Paul poisoned? You wouldn't be a serpent handler would you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

John the Revelator was boiled in a pot of boiling oil, didn't work...

Can you quote chapter and verse for the above quote?

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

they tried to have lions eat him, didn't work... and eventually they just sent him off to Patmos... why?

Simply amazing, could you possibly produce even one scripture that may support the above?

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T KILL HIM! He was unable to be killed...

Really? I would be very interested to hear you explain with Biblical presentation the above quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

What I'm saying isn't a criticism... I'm thankful for every sould that gets saved and every miracle that happens, but the fact of the matter is that we are NOT the church of the book of Acts in terms of power, what we have is merely a fraction of what they have...

You didn't read one word that Brother Matthew typed to you. R84, you don't have the right to say that what is happening today is not the book of Acts church. You have never answered me on how may Bible studies do you give a week to non-Christians, nor have you answered me about if you ever left DogPatch? Understand something unless you have swung the bat don't tell other people how to hit a home run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

And you can say "you need to do something before you say that" all you want, that doesn't change the FACT that its true...

Your entire tin drum beating isn't changing anyone's mind either. Listen go out and win the 3000 + souls and show us how it's done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

and the fact that this person that I was talking to is an evangelist willing to judge people and speak ill of someone who he has never met, knows nothing about, and doesn't even know the person's name is a sad statement about our organization and our people... That we let people with that kind of hate and bitterness into our midst and don't even think twice... but, BY GOD, don't you dare wear a pair of pants ladies...

Hey times proves all things my man, you need to get going and start chopping wood and get those 3000 souls + lined up at the water's edge.
Show me how it's done, bring it forward and the mouths will be shut.
Right now all you're doing is talking trash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

It isn't that they're sorry, its that there is something that isn't all there with us, and until we are willing to admit that and figure out what it is, its never gonna change...

Again, this is what I love about Pentecost, we just have such a large group of know-it-alls and arm-chair-experts on the ministry.

I bet your pastor loves to hear all your advice, it's a wonder that he shows up at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

I'm glad you're happy to sit in your little fraternity room and slam people who have never been (and probably never will be) given the chance to stand where you are no matter how called they might be because they see that we aren't what we claim to be, and you can keep doing that...

You are on another roll Tarzan, try to be prepared for what may follow your boastful words. Don't cry foul, when you get a verbal spanking for your pride.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

But that doesn't change that we don't have the power we claim to have, we don't have the anointing we claim to have, and we aren't the people we claim to be...

Speak for yourself Hoss, you need to draw a circle around yourself and ask the question "where's the revival and move of God?"

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Scott Hutchinson · #**176** 09-20-2007, 11:31 PM

I haven't won too many myself to be knocking those who are out there in the trenches.
I need to do better in the outreach department myself.

#**177** 09-20-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I haven't won too many myself to be knocking those who are out there in the trenches.
I need to do better in the outreach department myself.

if we take that thought to heart though... we can never get better...

There are two ways to take criticism that is given in a way that isn't to criticize but to help...

one is to come up with a way to discredit the person doing the criticizing and then ignore what they say no matter how much merit it might have (which is what is being done in this thread)

the second is to realize that, yes, they might have a point and to do something about it...

We can discredit people until the end of the world, doesn't mean that the people we try so hard to discredit and shut up don't have a point...

In fact, I'd argue the ones that we work to simply shut up are the ones who are the most right...

chosenbyone · #**178** 09-21-2007, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

if we take that thought to heart though... we can never get better...

There are two ways to take criticism that is given in a way that isn't to criticize but to help...

one is to come up with a way to discredit the person doing the criticizing and then ignore what they say no matter how much merit it might have (which is what is being done in this thread)

the second is to realize that, yes, they might have a point and to do something about it...

We can discredit people until the end of the world, doesn't mean that the people we try so hard to discredit and shut up don't have a point...

In fact, I'd argue the ones that we work to simply shut up are the ones who are the most right...

I can't believe I'm still up, but since I am, I must chime in on this subject. There aren't many occasions that I could totally agree with my more conservative brethren but this would be an exception.

You were asked some direct questions regarding your part in winning souls for the kingdom to which you didn't answer. These brethren that you are so quick to dismiss are the ones doing just that....winning souls. I don't want to come across as too harsh on you, but I have heard this rhetoric before from people that have no track record for soul winning.

I didn't graduate from a UPCI or any other Apostolic college. Additionally, I was never license as a minister. That should never be used as an excuse for not being a vessel that Jesus can use to reach the lost.

We as Christians should have a burdened for the lost and act accordingly. We are the hands and feet and the example of Christ on earth and we are equipped to bring the good news of salvation to all that would receive and plant the seeds for those that reject the message.

I have won many to Christ and I feel that I haven't won enough. I won souls while never holding a meeting/revival, I just witnessed and worked in any capacity for Christ that I could. I labored in hospices for years and saw many saved one by one. I witnessed to neighbors, co-workers and gave bible studies...one by one. If you feel enough isn't being done to reach the lost then go out and win a soul...one by one.

If the Lord appoints and anoints you to be another Billy Cole and go off to a foreign land where tens of thousands receive the Holy Ghost in one meeting, well to God be the glory. Until then, respect those that labor in the fields and don't negate what they contribute to the kingdom.

I need to go to bed for I am getting bit too honest. No offense brother, I just got frustrated reading what you wrote, because the same brethren 15 years ago that made similar "constructive" criticism have never grown and excepted responsibility for their part in soul winning.

Goodnight...again.

Evang.Benincasa · #**179** 09-21-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I can't believe I'm still up, but since I am, I must chime in on this subject. There aren't many occasions that I could totally agree with my more conservative brethren but this would be an exception.

You were asked some direct questions regarding your part in winning souls for the kingdom to which you didn't answer. These brethren that you are so quick to dismiss are the ones doing just that....winning souls. I don't want to come across as too harsh on you, but I have heard this rhetoric before from people that have no track record for soul winning.

I didn't graduate from a UPCI or any other Apostolic college. Additionally, I was never license as a minister. That should never be used as an excuse for not being a vessel that Jesus can use to reach the lost.

We as Christians should have a burdened for the lost and act accordingly. We are the hands and feet and the example of Christ on earth and we are equipped to bring the good news of salvation to all that would receive and plant the seeds for those that reject the message.

I have won many to Christ and I feel that I haven't won enough. I won souls while never holding a meeting/revival, I just witnessed and worked in any capacity for Christ that I could. I labored in hospices for years and saw many saved one by one. I witnessed to neighbors, co-workers and gave bible studies...one by one. If you feel enough isn't being done to reach the lost then go out and win a soul...one by one.

If the Lord appoints and anoints you to be another Billy Cole and go off to a foreign land where tens of thousands receive the Holy Ghost in one meeting, well to God be the glory. Until then, respect those that labor in the fields and don't negate what they contribute to the kingdom.

I need to go to bed for I am getting bit too honest. No offense brother, I just got frustrated reading what you wrote, because the same brethren 15 years ago that made similar "constructive" criticism have never grown and excepted responsibility for their part in soul winning.

Goodnight...again.

redeemedcynic84 heed the above words

ThePastorsCoach · #**180** 09-21-2007, 12:44 AM

Dude - what ARE you smokin'?