David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decision

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

If I told you my sources, I'd have to kill you!!!



In all honesty, people from many walks in the UPC contact me in confidence and I have never betrayed that confidence, nor will I.

And I am about to go away from this conversation as well.

I will leave with this thought.

I was always a person who believed the best about leadership. I always submitted without question. I held leadership in high regard and denied my own will to please them.

But there are things I have seen that broke that in me. I am not proud to say that at all, but it is true. I will never trust any religious organizational structure in the manner I once did.

I hope that no one misreads my posts from this thread as an attack on any one. I simply do not drink the Kool-Aid any longer.

[SDG]

What's even sillier ... is that those execs get honorariums from the very budgets they supervise ... for example various of them will go to a SEM conference and get a handsome offering from the dept. or division ... then turn around and tell the dept ... they got to cut back on spending.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

What's even sillier ... is that those execs get honorariums from the very budgets they supervise ... for example various of them will go to a SEM conference and get a handsome offering from the dept. or division ... then turn around and tell the dept ... they got to cut back on spending.

Now, c'mon, Dan! You know you're just making all this up!!!

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

What's even sillier ... is that those execs get honorariums from the very budgets they supervise ... for example various of them will go to a SEM conference and get a handsome offering from the dept. or division ... then turn around and tell the dept ... they got to cut back on spending.

Daniel, I could say so much more, but to what benefit? Some do not want to believe that type of abuse exists, and others are part of that same system.

It is a plantation mentality.

The general thought is that the constituency is to serve headquarters personnel instead of headquarters serving the constituency.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

I was always a person who believed the best about leadership. I always submitted without question. I held leadership in high regard and denied my own will to please them.

But there are things I have seen that broke that in me. I am not proud to say that at all, but it is true. I will never trust any religious organizational structure in the manner I once did.

Me too. That's what I was trying to say the other day. Don't stop till you get to the top.

Just curious, these fat exec paychecks and retirement bennies, are they comparable to what retiring UPC missionaries get?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Daniel, I could say so much more, but to what benefit? Some do not want to believe that type of abuse exists, and others are part of that same system.

It is a plantation mentality.

The general thought is that the constituency is to serve headquarters personnel instead of headquarters serving the constituency.

And that will work how long?

As long as the masses continue to drink the kool-aid!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

If I told you my sources, I'd have to kill you!!!

In all honesty, people from many walks in the UPC contact me in confidence and I have never betrayed that confidence, nor will I.

I'm sure they do, MOW. You seem to be a pretty laid back person to converse with. I'm a little teary about all of this conversation and I guess I need to stay out of it and I will.

Just remembering when I've been in these type conflicts and God has specifically spoken to me - "The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace."

Since you gave such large room for expression - that is mine.

I appreciate you, MOW!

Bowing out.......

[Brother Price]

I said it, and people disagree with me on it, but the church is NOT a business, and should not be run as one. Sadly though, religion makes the church more of a business than the Church. The luxury pensions these execs in the org get shows me that it is not being run right.

Just my thoughts...

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

And that will work how long?

As long as the masses continue to drink the kool-aid!

Agreed!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

No - just referring to the "overworked director". If it becomes a division they would probably need a Sec/Treas and support staff.

The funding is the big hurdle that the spanish brothers will have to overcome. If they want a division they will have to pay for it.

Do nationals pony up to entirely fund Foreign Missions? Do the kiddies fund S.S.? Would the Youth Dept survive if Sheaves for Christ could only target the deep pockets of their youth?

If the plan is to have one exec ... then treat him like a PIM. Let him go to all the churches in the org .. w/ help from the regional directors and collect funding for this proposed division by seeking partners

From your perspective and posts thus far... this seems to be a move to placate a burgeoning, demanding segment rather than to seriously explore the wonderful outreach/growth opportunities this could offer the entire fellowship ... there are scores of English speaking churches that want the training and resources to reach Spanish speakers in their communities ... and of the 500 churches you speak of many of the Spanish churches are really just daughter works of English speaking churches that are collecting tithes from them and often not compensating or under-compensating their Spanish pastors.

If this is the attitude behind this ... expect this to back fire ... for years there have been rumblings of a split ... and there have been splinters ... but if the bill is just solely handed to the Spanish churches ... why have middle man?