Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
Its not meant to just be crystal clear. The doctrine of Christ ia a MYSTERY meaning a hidden truth. John says the Pharisees understood NOT he spoke to them of the Father.
Who is the one who sent Jesus?
44 Jesus cried and said , He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. John 12:44-45 |
Yeah I STRONGLY disagree with that. It is meant to be crystal clear, if not why even bother trying to prove it?
The idea that it's a hidden truth is to me gnostic. It is reminiscent of mystery religions.
Gnosis is the common Greek noun for knowledge (in the nominative case γνῶσις f.). In the context of the English language gnosis generally refers to the word's meaning within the spheres of Christian mysticism, Mystery religions and Gnosticism where it signifies a 'spiritual knowledge' or religion of knowledge, in the sense of mystical enlightenment or 'insight'. Gnosis taught a deliverance of man from the constraints of earthly existence though 'insight' into an essential relationship, as soul or spirit, with a supramundane place of freedom....
Among the gnostics, gnosis was first and foremost a matter of self-knowledge, which was considered the path leading to the goal of enlightenment as the hidden knowledge of the various pre-Judeo-Christian pagan Mystery-Religions.[13] Knowledge that first relieved the individual of their cultural religious indoctrination and then reconciled them to their personal deity.[14] Through such self-knowledge and personal purification (virtuous living) the adept is led to direct knowledge of God via themselves as inner reflection or will. Later, Valentinius (Valentinus), taught that gnosis was the privileged Gnosis kardias "knowledge of the heart" or "insight" about the spiritual nature of the cosmos, that brought about salvation to the pneumatics— the name given to those believed to have reached the final goal of sanctity.
According to Samuel Angus (1920) gnosis in these early sects was distinct from the secret teachings revealed to initiates once they had reached a certain level of progression akin to arcanum. [15] Rather, these teachings were paths to obtain gnosis. (See e.g. "fukasetsu" (Japanese), or ineffability, a quality of realization common to many, if not most, esoteric traditions; see also Jung on the difference between sign and symbol.)[citation needed] Gnosis from this perspective being analogous, to the same meaning as the words occult and arcana.[15] Arcanum which is knowledge akin to prognostication (Divination) derived by the various systems (metaphysical in nature) used to obtain foreknowledge from the Fates or fate (i.e. to tarot reading, Cleromancy, magic or Magical thinking).[16]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosis
Also again you refer to what John said Jesus said out of context.
When it says they understood not that Jesus was speaking of the Father the text is referring to the pronouns HIM
Joh 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you, but
He who sent Me is true, and I speak to the world those things what I heard of
Him.
Joh 8:27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father.
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