Yep...but I don't think this scripture is a mandate for us to make sure everyone else "loves Him." If we see someone not keeping HIS commandments, we can assume they don't love Him. If we catch ourselves not keeping His commandments, we know we have a heart issue.
Hopefully, keeping His commandments is distinct from keeping man-made commandments, especially insofar as it's used as a measuring stick.
He didn't say, "If you love me, keep every man-made church rule." He said, "If you love me, keep MY commandments."
concerning God's unconditional love you stated in another post. He does love us and does all in his power to lead us rightly but friendship is conditional.
What's your opinion of "playing it safe, just incase" regarding standards?
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Originally Posted by Aquila
I can respect it. If someone feels convicted that playing it safe is more comfortable and helps them serve God with a clear conscience I fully support them.
I fall into this crowd in some areas.
I agree with this.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
It would seem to denote uncertainty, lack of clarity and fear concerning what God desires to see in us and at what point he would revoke our salvation.
I agree with this too.
However, Christians should be careful and to NOT throw caution to the wind because GRACE will catch us if we fall.
There is a certain responsibility that we have, as sons and daughters of God.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Last edited by rgcraig; 07-02-2010 at 09:22 PM.
Reason: added "not"
(Php 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I think that the way of dealing with sin in the OT was more immediate and harsh and therefore more frightening.
Well, that's one way of looking at it. There was some of that in the NT, too, of course, but, yes, most of the dealings with sin in the NT are delayed. Mind-bogglingly horrible and never-ending, though. Eh. Matter of taste, I guess.
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(Mostly because the carrying out of punishment was up to fallible men instead of a God who could see into the hearts of men.)
I would much rather trust God to be merciful than to trust a man to judiciously execute His judgments. The NT removes a middle man from the equation. God is still to be feared and respected, but He can also be trusted.
I don't think trusting God is the real issue. Can you trust yourself? Did you fulfill the requirements correctly? Will you not slip up between now and the end of your life? (There are requirements, aren't there?)
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
What's your opinion of "playing it safe, just incase" regarding standards?
It's illogical...just when is someone playing it safe? Whose standards? They guy that says no internet? They guy that says no open toe shoes? The Amish?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
It's illogical...just when is someone playing it safe? Whose standards? They guy that says no internet? They guy that says no open toe shoes? The Amish?
All of them! (Just to be safe. )
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
It's illogical...just when is someone playing it safe? Whose standards? They guy that says no internet? They guy that says no open toe shoes? The Amish?
That was exactly my point. I'm actually suprised the UPC hasn't adopted the practice of starting up monestaries for all their super spiritual holy people to not be tainted by this world.
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What if leadership get's a clearer understanding that, let's say TV's or facial hair on men are not "sin" or "bad things" as they have been taught in the past, but if we move the line and now allow these things, so to speak, where would it end?
"So let's not move the line"
The next step? Ohhh, lets start with NOT telling people this or that will land you in hell? Then, teach what the BIBLE says, nothing else. Then... spend an incredible amount of time sharing the benefits of loving God, loving God's people, loving those that don't know the love of God, loving other people more than themselves, etc.
In the end what you want, what GOD wants it seems, is for people to follow Him because they want to follow Him, not because the DON'T want to go to hell. So preachers and teachers need to work harder at teaching and showing the Love of God so THAT is what people want to emulate.
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