Proof Of Soul Sleep

[TK Burk]

Here is a copy of a study I recently taught to our church family.



Asleep in the Grave, Awakened to Everlasting Life

The resurrection of the dead gives hope to the Christian. Yet when asked how it takes place and in what manner it will occur, many of these same saints may feel hopeless to explain. Understanding the time and nature of the resurrection will affect how you view God’s Word. That is why it’s of paramount importance that every child of God has a clear understanding of what the Bible says about this subject.

When we look in our Bible we see the promise of never seeing “the grave” or “death” is aligned with a believer being “transformed” from their body in a “spiritual resurrection.” This is the difference between reanimation of flesh and transformation from flesh. But before the resurrection came into fruition, deceased saints are described in the Bible as being in a state of “sleep” (See Deu 31:16; 1Ki 1:21; Acts 13:36; 1Co 15:51; 1Th 4:14). Daniel spoke of this…

Daniel 12:2
And MANY OF THEM THAT SLEEP IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Daniel placed those in the grave in a place of rest while waiting for the prophesied time when they would awaken to eternal life. Concerning “dust,” the Bible says that a dead body returns to the same substance from which it was made.

Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 3:18-21
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Job 34:14-15
If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Psalms 90:3 KJV
Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

Look at this same verse in Psalms is translated in the English Standard Version.

Psalms 90:3 ESV
You return man to dust and say, "Return, O children of man!"

Psalms 104:29-30
Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Psalms 146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

The timeframe Daniel placed for those sleeping to awake to everlasting life is found in the following verse:

Daniel 12:7
And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and swore by him that liveth forever that IT SHALL BE FOR A TIME, TIMES, AND A HALF; and when he shall have accomplished TO SCATTER THE POWER OF THE HOLY PEOPLE, all these things shall be finished.

"Time, times, and a half" is prophetic language for “1-year,” “2-years,” and “½ year,” which equates to 3½ years, 42 months, or 1260 days. Each of these times is used in the Bible to refer to the 3½ year AD70 siege and destruction of Jerusalem and her Temple. The Temple was burnt August 10, AD70 (the Jewish Ninth of Av), the exact day and month on which it had been burnt by the king of Babylon many years before.

Part 1 of 2

[TK Burk]

Part 2 of 2

THE NEW COVENANT AND THE RESURRECTION

The faithful who had died prior to this "Great Tribulation" were resurrected from their graves in AD70 to go and live forever in the presence of their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Daniel 12:1-3
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was [Compare with Matthew 24:21] since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life [resurrection and blessings], and some to shame and everlasting contempt [judgment and curses]. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever.

Paul spoke of this time in the following verses:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel ["at that time shall Michael stand up” – Dan 12:1], and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Jesus said this was to occur during the AD70 judgment of Jerusalem.

Matthew 13:41-43
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. THEN SHALL THE RIGHTEOUS SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN [The “sun is the ‘SON,’ Jesus Christ – See Rev 21:22-24] in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This collates with Daniel’s statement…

Daniel 12:3
And they that be wise SHALL SHINE AS THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE FIRMAMENT; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever.

Paul indicated that those awake during that time will receive the same promise of eternal life.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul's promise is the same as that which Jesus made to Martha.

John 11:26
Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Those who were alive after AD70 were given the same hope of eternal life only with a more powerful promise—they would never experience the grave or death!

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should NOT PERISH, but HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

"Perish" means "death," and "everlasting life" means "continuing without end, immortal." Jesus literally died so that His followers would never see death, but would instead pass from this world into life eternal. A physical resurrection would not allow this promise to be true today, but a spiritual resurrection would, and a spiritual resurrection is what we find promised in the Bible. This was the inspiration for the words of the old Christian hymn, Sweet Hour: “Upon leaving our physical robe of flesh behind, we do spiritually enter that perfect land—Beulah Land—the eternal home of the righteous—the city whose builder and maker is God!” – Sweet Hour, William B. Bradbury, 1861

The thing that made Nicodemus take notice was that he knew Jesus’ talk of a birth of the "Spirit," was prophesied to take place during the time of the Messiah. He knew the Torah said this time would happen during the last days of the Jewish age (See John 3; Isa 61:1-2; Eze 11:17-21, 36:25-27; Joel 2:28-32; Acts 2:16-21). These “last days” were the same days as those prophesied by Daniel. He foretold that they would conclude with the resurrection of the dead. Since Daniel spoke of the destruction of AD70, and since those days are now past, then the resurrection he spoke of has occurred. This means that when a man or woman, who’s been Born Again in Jesus' name, breathes their last breathe in this life, they are translated from their flesh body, and instantly go into the eternal kingdom of the Lord God. This was the promise of Jesus; that His believers would never see the grave or death.

Paul spoke of this promise in the next verses.

Romans 6:3-11
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, WE SHALL BE ALSO IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESURRECTION: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. NOW IF WE BE DEAD WITH CHRIST, WE BELIEVE THAT WE SHALL ALSO LIVE WITH HIM: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; DEATH HATH NO MORE DOMINION OVER HIM. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. LIKEWISE RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN, BUT ALIVE UNTO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.

2 Timothy 2:11
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him.

Peter gave witness to this same promise in his first Epistle.

1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The New Testament mentions this same promise of a ‘new spiritual life’ and ‘everlasting life’ in these verses such as: John 3:15-18, 4:14, 5:24, 6:50, 6:54-58, 8:51-53, 10:28; Romans 8:13; 1John 5:10-12.

A believer in Jesus cannot die. For them, “death” is a doorway through which they enter into eternity.

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT FROM THE BODY, and to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, THEN shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The last trump sounded at AD70 when the “holy people's strength” was “scattered” (Daniel 12:7). This occurred during the same Jewish generation that crucified Jesus, saw the armies of Titus make their house (The Jewish Temple) desolate, and also scattered their survivors throughout the known world of their day (See Dan 12:7; Mat 23:37-38, 24:1-2; Luke 21:6, 20; Zec 13:6-9 / See “This Generation” Mat 24:34; Mark 13:30-31; Luke 21:32-33 / See “These Things” Mat 24:6; Mark 13:29; Luke 21:31). This then means that the resurrection of those asleep in the grave has already taken place, and now, when a saint of God dies, they leave their earthly body and are instantly translated to the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ, where they will remain for eternity.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Much of Revelation is symbolic. The altar is a place of sacrifice. When a sacrifice was killed its life blood wound up at the bottom of the altar in other words UNDER THE ALTAR.

12: And thou shalt take of the blood of the bullock, and put it upon the horns of the altar with thy finger, and pour all the blood beside the bottom of the altar. Exodus 29:12

The blood represents the LIFE.

4: But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. Gen. 9:4

John sees in vision form Saints are laying down their lifes blood. They are under the altar signifying the pouring out of their blood in sacrifice to Yeshua Messiah.

They cry out for vengence upon their murderers. Does this sound like PARADISE to you?

They are told to REST until the rest of their brethren will be killed.

Strongs defines rest as "repose".

The Dictionary says repose means to "lie at rest".

Sounds like theses souls are sleeping. This agrees with the fact that Rev. 20:4-5 shows us WHEN the souls came back to life.

4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev. 20:4-5

This clarifies the matter. The souls under the altar came to life AT THE RESURRECTION. Souls in this context are plainly said to have been dead and then lived again by means of resurrection. Then others (souls) did NOT LIVE AGAIN until the 1000 years are finished.

So this is not the knockout punch against soul sleep some think it is. On the contrary it confirms it.

After all why would we need a resurrected body if when we die we are already alive with a spiritual body in Heaven?

It makes the important and foundation doctrine of the resurrection of none effect.

Here is something to consider. It is actually the key to understanding. All the places where the dead appear to be alive you are looking at either visions (which need interpretation) or parables.

But whenever plain doctrine is being taught the dead are WAITING RESURRECTION.

Rev.6:9: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled


Rev.20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Michael,We know souls are not under the altar the same as they are not in Abrahams bosom.Many stories and parables and visions are not true as seen or told but they show us things.As we read the bible many time people are referred to as souls because the soul is the memory of our fleshly body but I believe at our death our memory seperates from our bodies and goes to paradise with our spirit.So when a person is killed or dead it can be said the soul is killed but that don't mean it is dead if it seperates from the body and goes to paradise.It's very clear these are given robes and they talk and they are in a place of rest and they know what is going on around them as the dead unsaved knows.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Joelel

God showed me all these things by my spirit comming out of my body.

Lucky you.

[Michael The Disciple]

Mblume

All in all PAUL SAID ABSENCE FROM THE BODY WAS POSSIBLE. You have said nothing yet that is convincing about that statement by Paul, and even denied you believed it was a wishful fantasy although you said Paul only WILLED that to occur, implying it could not actually occur. That one verse disproves your entire hypothesis.

Michael how weak. I have never said anywhere it was not possible to be absent from the body. Pauls whole point was that after his earthly body was dissolved he would be given his eternal body. The debate is on WHEN that happens.

The context proves it is when we receive immortality. He had already taught those same people WHEN that would happen in 1 Cor. 15. The second coming, the last trump.

Your "imposed" doctrine that all the scriptures that speak of the dead receiving life refer merely to dead bodies blinds you from the truth.

Why dont you deal with this:

Over and over Preachers tell us the mass of scripture that teaches THE DEAD are given life at resurrection is only talking about DEAD BODIES AND NOT THE DEAD THEMSELVES.

Take 1 Cor. 15. Paul goes into great detail teaching us about when we are made alive. When we are given immortality. Its all about the GOOD NEWS. The GOSPEL and the good news are one.

Lets think on this scripture:

32: If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 1 Cor. 15:32

How could Paul say this if he thought his "immortal soul" automatically went to be with Jesus at death?

Why would he say the Christian message would have no advantage if it were not for THE RESURRECTION?

But Paul! Dont we go to Heaven WHEN WE DIE? Are we not rejoicing and praising the Almighty at the throne?

Isnt the resurrection just a SECONDARY EVENT that really adds little to the great eternal life we receive at death?

Friends Paul said IF THE DEAD RISE NOT. This "rising"is THE RESURRECTION PLAINLY.

He says APART FROM THE RESURRECTION we might as well eat and drink and have fun.

Pauls HOPE was the RESURRECTION.

14: But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15: And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. Acts 24:14-15

How could Paul say there is no advantage to being a Christian if the DEAD RISE NOT if indeed there are those who have been enjoying their eternal life and immortality right now in Heaven?

Why was not Pauls HOPE in the fact he would have instant Heaven and eternal life at death? It obviously was not if it was THE RESURRECTION.

Its obvious that most think THAT experience is a far greater hope than the resurrection.

See it?

There would most CERTAINLY be advantage in being a Christian if as soon as we die we have eternal life.

But here Paul seems to not even be aware of such a thing!

He is preaching to them the GOSPEL (good news) that he believed in.

The whole chapter he is telling us about the resurrection of THE DEAD not merely dead bodies.

What great thing would we be gaining if we had been alive in Heaven for 2000 years and then we gained a body? What were we doing in Heaven those 2000 years without one? And how would having one add anything to us when we are already immortal beings with eternal life?

If the DEAD RISE NOT let us go party!

In this whole chapter dedicated to telling about THE GOOD NEWS ( the gospel) there is not one word about anyone having eternal life BEFORE THE SECOND COMING WHEN THE DEAD ARE RAISED!

There is the deception.

[Michael The Disciple]

Mblume

There was no one in fiery hell who ever held a conversation with Abraham. Christ was simply using the idea of actual consciousness of souls after death of both the righteous and unrighteous, to again relate his point in story form to the Pharisees, emphasizing Abraham due to the Pharisee's confidence in Abraham's righteousness.

You accused me of attacking Christ character over basically the same thing.

Here you are ADMITTING it is not a literal story. That puts us both on the same ground.

I say it is a story made to fit the Pharisee belief concerning the dead actually being the living.

Josephus:

1: Now as to hades, wherin the souls of the righteous and unrighteous are detained, it is necessary to speak of it. Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region, wherin the light of this world does not shine; from which circumstance, that in this region the light does not shine, it cannot be but there must be in it perpetual darkness. This place is alloted as a place of custody for souls, in which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute to them temporary punishments, agreeable to everyone's behavior and manners.

3: For there is one descent into this region, at whose gate WE believe (I wonder who the we is?) there stands an archangel with a host; which gate when those pass through that are conducted down by the angels appointed over souls, the do not go the same way; but the just are guided to the right hand, and are led with hymns, sung by the angels appointed over that place, unto a region of light, in which the just have dwelt from the beginning the world; not constrained by necessity, but ever enjoying the prospect of the good things they see, and rejoice in the expectation of those new enjoyments, ............. etc etc.

This is the Pharisee belief. Does it sound like anything you have read in the Old Testament? True it was a doctrine of that time but where did it come from? No Old Testament backing at all. If you can point out the Prophets teaching this in the Bible I will change my belief and admit you all are right and I was wrong.

Yeshua simply used their own belief to point out their covetousness and that even to their own belief they would suffer for it.

Even YOU admit there was no man standing in Hades fire talking to Abraham.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi Michael,Sorry it took me so long to respond to your post.I wasen't looking for you to talk to me anymore and we are getting ready for the hurricane here in Tx.

To answer your questions.This was a story Jesus told,not a true story.He was just showing what happens to peoples souls and spirits at death.They are not in Abrahams bosom,Abraham"s bosom is showing us we are in a place of rest and this story also shows us the unsaved are in torement.Before in other subjects I gave scripture showing fire represents tribulation or torement.I don't think they are in torement of fire but other kind of tribulation.

Michael,My spirit came out of my body two times and one time my spirit looked like my body but it was clear looking,so what i'm saying is our spirit has parts like our body.A other tiime just the spirit part of my leg seperated from my body and I seen it as it seperated.When it seperated from my body it was very hot.What I got from that is God was showing me our bodies protect our spirit from the heat and coldness around us.The way I see it is when a person dies and they are nor saved their spirit just roams the earth with devils and if we are saved our spirit goes to paradise with God,a place of rest.You see the spirits of the unsaved has no rest.You see Michael I don't just spout off at the mouth like many people do,God showed me all these things by my spirit comming out of my body.

Wow so you and Mblume both agree it was not a true story! So we all are on the same ground. Abraham did not really speak to the rich man in Hades. I agree. It was a story Yeshua gave (probably through the word of wisdom) to sting the Pharisees using their own doctrine as the basis.

As to your experience I can only try to relate it to what is written. One of the strongest arguments soul sleep offers is that IF indeed man has a spirit body inside of him that lives separate and apart from his physical body WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF THE RESURRECTION?

Now you are explaining that this ETERNAL, IMMORTAL, SPIRIT BODY suffers from the cold and heat. Hmmmm. So in Heaven it would seem these spirits would really have no comfort would they? You all keep saying how we have to be united to a body after thousands of years being in Heaven as a way to still believe in the resurrection.

So again this doesnt make going to heaven as a Spirit only sound that great.
One might get to hot or to cold!

Your last point I can hardly believe. What Bible do you have that the spirits of the wicked dead are hanging around on the Earth with devils?

So you think soul bodies are in Hell, spirit bodies are roaming the Earth with devils and bodies are in the grave if I understand you.

So we have spirit bodies, soul bodies, and flesh bodies.

Sorry Joel.

I do hope you are spared the Hurricane.

[Michael The Disciple]

Michael,We know souls are not under the altar the same as they are not in Abrahams bosom.Many stories and parables and visions are not true as seen or told but they show us things.As we read the bible many time people are referred to as souls because the soul is the memory of our fleshly body but I believe at our death our memory seperates from our bodies and goes to paradise with our spirit.

Once again I agree with you. Souls are not literally under the altar. Neither were they in Abrahams bosom. They are as you said illustrations about things.

You say the soul is the memory of our body. Then at death it unites with the Spirit and goes to Paradise.

Ok.

That is a lot like I personally believe. The Spirit DOES go back to God who gave it. The memory of the PERSON is I believe "filed away" in the BOOK OF REMEMBERANCE.

Then those who feared Yahweh spoke one with another; and Yahweh listened, and heard, and a book of memory was written before him, for those who feared Yahweh, and who honored his name. Malachi 3:16 World English Bible

I believe THIS is the answer we look for. The Spirit does indeed go back to God. It is our life essence. The memory of who we are and what we did is contained there. It is inactive until the resurrection. Then we come back ALIVE! That is the meaning of the spiritual illustration of the souls under the altar.

THEY ARE TOLD TO REST. BINGO!

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Wow so you and Mblume both agree it was not a true story! So we all are on the same ground. Abraham did not really speak to the rich man in Hades. I agree. It was a story Yeshua gave (probably through the word of wisdom) to sting the Pharisees using their own doctrine as the basis.

As to your experience I can only try to relate it to what is written. One of the strongest arguments soul sleep offers is that IF indeed man has a spirit body inside of him that lives separate and apart from his physical body WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF THE RESURRECTION?

Now you are explaining that this ETERNAL, IMMORTAL, SPIRIT BODY suffers from the cold and heat. Hmmmm. So in Heaven it would seem these spirits would really have no comfort would they? You all keep saying how we have to be united to a body after thousands of years being in Heaven as a way to still believe in the resurrection.

So again this doesnt make going to heaven as a Spirit only sound that great.
One might get to hot or to cold!

Your last point I can hardly believe. What Bible do you have that the spirits of the wicked dead are hanging around on the Earth with devils?

So you think soul bodies are in Hell, spirit bodies are roaming the Earth with devils and bodies are in the grave if I understand you.

So we have spirit bodies, soul bodies, and flesh bodies.

Sorry Joel.

I do hope you are spared the Hurricane.

Michael,I guess I didn't make it clear enough.If we are saved our spirit and soul goes to God in paradise and is not in tribulation because it is protected from tribulation in paradise.Thank you for your time.I have given you truth time after time and with scripture you reject.I'm not posting for you but for others who are reading.Because.Titis 3:[10] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Michael,I guess I didn't make it clear enough.If we are saved our spirit and soul goes to God in paradise and is not in tribulation because it is protected from tribulation in paradise.Thank you for your time.I have given you truth time after time and with scripture you reject.I'm not posting for you but for others who are reading.Because.Titis 3:[10] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Well Joel keep posting the kind of revelations you are doing now and I think you may actually turn some people away from the instant Heaven doctrine.