Attn Pastors: Use the Bible, Walk with $$$$

DAII · #1 09-28-2010, 01:09 PM

Attention Pastors:

Adding Bible verses to your bylaws might help you walk away scott free if you ever decide to walk with it all ...

Being spiritual has its perks and benefits.

Quote:

A Franklin County judge who thought he was delving too deeply into religious matters dismissed a lawsuit accusing a local pastor of taking nearly $1 million from his congregation, which hoped to get the money back in a judgment.
Some local law professors said navigating religious cases in court can be tricky, but that Judge Charles A. Schneider should have separated the secular issues from the religious ones and ruled on the case.

Eighteen members of World of Pentecost Church at 3431 E. Main St. filed a civil lawsuit against the Rev. David Thompson and other church officials.

The civil suit was thrown out of Common Pleas Court on July 10.

Schneider said he would have had to involve himself in religious matters to decide the case.

"To truly control this matter, the court would have to control the very service itself," he wrote in his decision.

More here: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...1_5U7DC3C.html

coadie · #2 09-28-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

Attention Pastors:

Adding Bible verses to your bylaws might help you walk away scott free if you ever decide to walk with it all ...

Being spiritual has its perks and benefits.

More here: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...1_5U7DC3C.html

Thou shalt not steal is a religious opinion/tradition.

Apocrypha · #3 09-28-2010, 01:23 PM

Its called putting "Poision Pills" in your bylaws and constition. You put scriptural references to as many things in there as you can. Judges are VERY very loathe to mess with anything that smacks of religion due to bad precedent. From what I gather the church had bylaws/consitution that made it tough for a judge.

The bylaws a consitution of my church have similar things in them for similar reasons (not evil like what he did, but to avoid litigation if some saints want to force something in court based on technicalities).

The judge should have been smart enough to rule on it either way and decide if it was "unjust enrichment" of officials of a non-profit... which is pretty easy to decide on using various common sense tests.

Losing the 800k on a "energy scheme" could be trickier since churches invest money in various things like stocks/bonds/muni funds and it would depend on many factors to see if it was unlawful conversion of funds and if the board agreed to it according to the bylaws.

Apocrypha · #4 09-28-2010, 01:25 PM

Its called putting "Poision Pills" in your bylaws and constition. You put scriptural references to as many things in there as you can. Judges are VERY very loathe to mess with anything that smacks of religion due to bad precedent. From what I gather the church had bylaws/consitution that made it tough for a judge.

The bylaws a consitution of my church have similar things in them for similar reasons (not evil like what he did, but to avoid litigation if some saints want to force something in court based on technicalities).

The judge should have been smart enough to rule on it either way and decide if it was "unjust enrichment" of officials of a non-profit... which is pretty easy to decide on using various common sense tests.

Losing the 800k on a "energy scheme" could be trickier since churches invest money in various things like stocks/bonds/muni funds and it would depend on many factors to see if it was unlawful conversion of funds and if the board agreed to it according to the bylaws.

DAII · #5 09-28-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Its called putting "Poision Pills" in your bylaws and constition. You put scriptural references to as many things in there as you can. Judges are VERY very loathe to mess with anything that smacks of religion due to bad precedent. From what I gather the church had bylaws/consitution that made it tough for a judge.

The bylaws a consitution of my church have similar things in them for similar reasons (not evil like what he did, but to avoid litigation if some saints want to force something in court based on technicalities).

The judge should have been smart enough to rule on it either way and decide if it was "unjust enrichment" of officials of a non-profit... which is pretty easy to decide on using various common sense tests.

Losing the 800k on a "energy scheme" could be trickier since churches invest money in various things like stocks/bonds/muni funds and it would depend on many factors to see if it was unlawful conversion of funds and if the board agreed to it according to the bylaws.

How quaint "poison pills".

jfrog · #6 09-28-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Its called putting "Poision Pills" in your bylaws and constition. You put scriptural references to as many things in there as you can. Judges are VERY very loathe to mess with anything that smacks of religion due to bad precedent. From what I gather the church had bylaws/consitution that made it tough for a judge.

The bylaws a consitution of my church have similar things in them for similar reasons (not evil like what he did, but to avoid litigation if some saints want to force something in court based on technicalities).

The judge should have been smart enough to rule on it either way and decide if it was "unjust enrichment" of officials of a non-profit... which is pretty easy to decide on using various common sense tests.

Losing the 800k on a "energy scheme" could be trickier since churches invest money in various things like stocks/bonds/muni funds and it would depend on many factors to see if it was unlawful conversion of funds and if the board agreed to it according to the bylaws.

Can you give us a few examples of "Poison Pills" that you have seen?

Apocrypha · #7 09-28-2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Can you give us a few examples of "Poison Pills" that you have seen?

Its just called that because your putting something in there that will make a judge not want to mess with it. If you'd like I can put up a sample consitution/bylaws that are written with that in mind.

jfrog · #8 09-29-2010, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Its just called that because your putting something in there that will make a judge not want to mess with it. If you'd like I can put up a sample consitution/bylaws that are written with that in mind.

Yea, that would be great.

geekette · #9 10-01-2010, 09:12 AM

Not messing with religious doctrine is one of the cardinal tenets of American law. It's one of the three or four different types of disputes that the Supreme Court has said judges must not touch. It can get really hairy and this is one of those examples.

However, now that the pastor has been criminally convicted of embezzlement, if the lawsuit wasn't dismissed with prejudice, I'd seriously think about refiling it.