What's the difference?

[mizpeh]

In Psalm 26 David writes:

4 I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with dissemblers.
5 I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked

Yet in Mark 2 (Matt 9:9-13) when Jesus sat with sinners we are told:

13 And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude resorted unto him, and he taught them.
14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.
15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Does Jesus words and actions give us license to go to the bars, clubs, pool halls, etc? Can we sit with sinners?

Why then did David not feel right in sitting with sinners?

[n david]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

In Psalm 26 David writes:

4 I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with dissemblers.
5 I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked

Yet in Mark 2 (Matt 9:9-13) when Jesus sat with sinners we are told:

13 And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude resorted unto him, and he taught them.
14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.
15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Does Jesus words and actions give us license to go to the bars, clubs, pool halls, etc? Can we sit with sinners?

Why then did David not feel right in sitting with sinners?

I believe the difference to be in BOLD. David is speaking of making a choice on his part ... HE wouldn't choose to sit with sinners. With Jesus, he is sitting with many, including sinners ... but THEY followed HIM.

Nothing wrong with being around sinners ... but who is following whom?

[Withdrawn]

First hunch, Mizpeh, without doing any great deal of study on it (at the tail end of my lunch break), I would submit the following:

1. David's statements are consistent with Paul's statements in 2 Corinthians 6 where we are instructed to not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. After all, what fellowship does light have with darkness, right? Light dispells darkness and the two cannot co-exist.

2. Jesus' purpose for "eating and drinking with publicans and sinners" was consistent with His mission - "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord." You can't be physically distant from those to whom you are ministering.

Does that give us "license" to go into bars, etc.? I guess it depends on your intention. Are you there to kick back and partake of the debauchery and immorality? Or are you there for the specific purpose of "preaching deliverance to the captive" or the "recovering of sight to the blind"? I believe there is a place for such ministry, but one should certainly enter in only through much prayer and in the wisdom of God.

Just my $.02.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by jaamez

First hunch, Mizpeh, without doing any great deal of study on it (at the tail end of my lunch break), I would submit the following:

1. David's statements are consistent with Paul's statements in 2 Corinthians 6 where we are instructed to not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. After all, what fellowship does light have with darkness, right? Light dispells darkness and the two cannot co-exist.

2. Jesus' purpose for "eating and drinking with publicans and sinners" was consistent with His mission - "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord." You can't be physically distant from those to whom you are ministering.

Does that give us "license" to go into bars, etc.? I guess it depends on your intention. Are you there to kick back and partake of the debauchery and immorality? Or are you there for the specific purpose of "preaching deliverance to the captive" or the "recovering of sight to the blind"? I believe there is a place for such ministry, but one should certainly enter in only through much prayer and in the wisdom of God.

Just my $.02.

I'd agree with J on this one!

[mizpeh]

My take would be that Jesus was invited to eat at Matthew's house. Matthew had many friends who were sinners who came to eat with Jesus and hear Him speak. I don't believe Jesus was there for the intention purpose of to "sit with sinners" (which may mean to sit and partake of the sins of sinners). Sinners were there and He ministered to them in Matthew's house.

Jesus didn't go to bars and such to look for sinners to preach to them nor did he tell his disciples when he sent them out to do that either. I think we can find plenty of sinners to preach to without going out to bars. Jesus did a lot of preaching in the wilderness after He became famous and before that in the synagogues and houses.

[Esaias]

The Pharisees' definition of "sinner" and the Bible's definition of sinner are not necessarily the same...

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The Pharisees' definition of "sinner" and the Bible's definition of sinner are not necessarily the same...

Bumping old threads, Pancho.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by berkeley

Bumping old threads, Pancho.

Current ones are boring.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Current ones are boring.

Yeah. And I’ve been taking a trip down forum memory lane.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

In Psalm 26 David writes:

4 I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with dissemblers.
5 I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked

Yet in Mark 2 (Matt 9:9-13) when Jesus sat with sinners we are told:

13 And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude resorted unto him, and he taught them.
14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.
15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Does Jesus words and actions give us license to go to the bars, clubs, pool halls, etc? Can we sit with sinners?

Why then did David not feel right in sitting with sinners?

I think there are some contextual differences based off of the Hebrew. Here's a sample definition from Strong's:

A primitive root; properly to sit down (specifically as judge, in ambush, in quiet); by implication to dwell, to remain; causatively to settle, to marry...

In King David's case, to "sit" is not merely to place the behind down next to someone else on a couch or at a table, but was to sit enthroned at court (Consider Psalm 1 here) as judge among the people. King David would not permit himself to have sitting in his royal court those he knew to be dishonest or wicked of heart.

That's a lot different than entering into someone's house and sitting next to a sinner and chowing down on some grub and having a good time.