Tongues: Spiritual or Learned Behavior?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by renee819

Scotty wrote,
.

Scotty, if we were talking about receiving the Holy Ghost speaking in other tongues, your Post would be right on. People can not do that at any time.

However, when a person has the Gift of unknown tongues, they can speak those unknown tongues any time that they want to.

I know by experience. I got the Holy Ghost when I was a teen. Ever once in a while in serious prayer, maybe 2 or 3 times a yr. I would get a refilling.

About 5 yrs later, one night at church, we were all praising God around the alter. I rasised my hands and was praising God, when all of a sudden I started speaking in tongues. Well I kept on and on, as long as everyone was praying. After we got home, I put my family to bed and went into the living room and knelt down and started speaking in tongues again, Seems that I never could get finished, I spoke until 1or 2 am.

For several days, anytine I would think about it and start praying, I would speak in tongues. Day and night, I didn’t know what it was.
Finally I went to my Pastor and asked, Bro ----- What would make a person start speaking in tongues just any time, and never feel like they were finished?

He looked at me kinda odd and said, “Sister, I don’t know why anyone would do that.”
Later, after I studied my Bible and found out that what I had was the gift of tongues, I was surprised that my Pastor didn’t know the difference.
I am still surprised that many Pentecostal’s don’t know the difference in Speaking in Other tongues and the Gift of tongues.

I only have a problem with the line: "anytime 'they' want to".

Whether it is the infilling of the Holy Ghost or simply a refilling as you call it, or what many call 'prayer language' or 'praying in the Spirit', which is what I believe you are describing... either way, it is nothing that 'we' do, imo. It is when we enter into prayer and touch God on a spiritual level that one, even with your gift, can begin speaking in tongues. It is not us or you, it is the Spirit of God.

That being said, I stand behind my statement. I have a hard time believing God would willing be a part or allow the Spirit to move in a situation where man is 'testing' God.

[houston]

Originally Posted by scotty

I only have a problem with the line: "anytime 'they' want to".

Whether it is the infilling of the Holy Ghost or simply a refilling as you call it, or what many call 'prayer language' or 'praying in the Spirit', which is what I believe you are describing... either way, it is nothing that 'we' do, imo. It is when we enter into prayer and touch God on a spiritual level that one, even with your gift, can begin speaking in tongues. It is not us or you, it is the Spirit of God.

That being said, I stand behind my statement. I have a hard time believing God would willing be a part or allow the Spirit to move in a situation where man is 'testing' God.

Explain Paul's writing to the Corinthians.

[houston]

If speaking in tongues is controlled by the Holy Spirit, then Paul knew better than God in it's use. 2 or 3, let one interpret.

[ctclady11]

Obviously you were a little doubtful and confused about the whole speaking in tongues, or you wouldn't have posted the thread. All these fellow sisters did was speak the truth in their responses, not to put you down in any way but to help you! I will be praying for you sister!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by houston

If speaking in tongues is controlled by the Holy Spirit, then Paul knew better than God in it's use. 2 or 3, let one interpret.

huh?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by houston

Explain Paul's writing to the Corinthians.

What exactly don't u understand and need explained

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Quick Background: Most of you remember that I was UPC for approximately 10 years from my early 20's to early 30's before leaving around 2007 or 2008. In that time I became what I think of as an Agnostic Christian. In that I still believe in God, and I still think Jesus is the best image of Him, but after years of obsession over every minute detail of my spirituality, It was a relief to put everything else into a big box labeled "I don't know about any of this, but that's OK, because I don't think it matters".

And leaving the UPC, I was amicably divorced, and eventually remarried to an awesome guy, who just so happens to be an atheist, and after 12 years of bareness (in my 1st marriage), I got a wonderful surprise and now have a 16 month old daughter. And I am happier than I've ever been in my life.

But something I stumbled upon last month upset me quite a bit, and I find myself still wrestling with it. See, in all my post-UPC questioning, I never questioned the existence of God. My belief all hinged on one tiny little thing. I could logically explain away 99% of the things that happened to me in my time as an apostolic, but I never questioned that I had some kind of spiritual encounter that ended with speaking in tongues. Especially as it happened alone, in my bedroom. And all these years, I held onto that....that God must be real because of that experience.

The article that I read doesn't really matter, the gist of it was scientific studies regarding brain usage, (the language centers of the brain weren't used while speaking in tongues), linguistic study (none of the occurrences witnessed were real languages, or linguistically matched an unknown language) and that there was a similarity among speakers to the tongues of the leaders in that same area. The end results were that tongues were most likely learned behavior, and that the brain remembers the sounds and phrases and can repeat them basically subconsciously.

This was disturbing to me because, as I said, my entire belief in God, kind of hinges upon this one "proof". I am curious as to how the other side would respond.

I won't tell you not to post scripture, but I will add the corollary that it most likely won't have the same meaning/impact on me that it does on you.

You don't question what men called scientist say but you question the Bible written over 2,000 years ago, with many different writers yet all inspired by God without contradiction. How can anyone help you when you have your mind made up that man knows more than God?

[Michlow]

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to get back to this thread, Avery's been sick this week, nothing too serious but super cranky. This is the first time she's really been sick, we've been really lucky, so it's been a bit of a learning experience!

Thank you all for your responses, it will take me a while to process them all, as many of them will require quite a bit of thought. But as I was reading through them tonight, I realized something.

When I left (the UPC, my church, Christianity, whatever you want to label it) it was pretty much the darkest time of my life. I was very messed up. I had been lied to and manipulated, I was very confused, and very very angry at God.

Because so much of my faith had been built on a faulty premise, I went through a period of deconstruction. As everything I believed had been built upon a bad foundation, I felt the need to peel it off layer by layer and eventually try to rebuild. I took everything that I doubted and put it in a little box, labeled with a big question mark. And eventually all I had left was a persevering belief in God.

With all the doubts that I had, I never doubted that fact. Even when I doubted that I knew anything about him at all, I never doubted that He existed. Until I read that study on tongues.

And I found it very disturbing and scary and upsetting. I didn't like the implications, I wanted to go back and un-read it.

But tonight I glanced at the quote, that I added to my signature many many years ago, and I realized that I have reached that point, where I have literally doubted all things. And rather than being scared by that, I should embrace it, because now, I am finally in a place where I can try to build a good solid foundation.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Michlow, good to see you again after so long. There are many christians who don't take the bible literally, mainly the mainline churches like episcopal and methodists. You can search "progressive christianity" for more info. I don't have a comment about tongues except to say that my personal experience is authentic to me and no one can convince me otherwise. I remember your discussions in the past about the problem of evil in the world and violence in the OT. I just wanted to share 2 ministries on apologetics that I discovered recently and have learned a lot from. Most ministries aren't very deep in substance and knowledge, but these 2 are very substantive if you have time to check them out. 1 is ravi zacharias: http://www.rzim.org/ and the 2nd is william lane craig: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/ both ministries have 2 podcasts. A daily podcast and a weekly podcast. You can search their media page or subscribe in itunes. zacharias is more philosophical and craig is more scientific. whichever you prefer or both. Wish you the best. God Bless.

Thank you. I think I maybe read something by Ravi Zacharias years ago. I will check them out.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Hey Mich, what are you trying to say?

Originally Posted by houston

You slow or whot? She doesn't believe that the bible is inspired by God. But, tongues proved the existence of God to her.

Good 2 sentence synopsis!

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Does she still smoke cigarettes?

This made me laugh, though it has nothing to do with the conversation! Actually I quit over 7 years ago!

Originally Posted by CC1

I have not read any other posts in this thread yet other than your initial one and my response but I find your post here incredibly sad. I don't mean that in a mean way or a condescending way just with a heavy heart that this is where you have ended up. God loves you and despite what you now say the Bible is God's word and applies to your life.

CC1 I have fond memories of you, and feel bad that I have saddened you! Life is a journey, and I'm still a seeker. I say this with all humility, but I am in such a better place than I was all those years ago. I was so unhappy, and hypocritical, and filled with so much fear and bitterness and anger.

And now I am so content in life, am in a loving marriage, and after all those years of barreness, am actually a Mommy!

Originally Posted by Sherri

MICH!!!!!!! I have missed you. I haven't been on here much in the past year or so, but it's good to see your post and know that you're alive and kickin'. Glad to hear you have a baby girl - congratulations!

As to your post itself, you have been on a spiritual quest for a very long time. I pray that God reveals Himself to you in such a real way that you will have no doubts. All of Christianity is based on FAITH - the evidence of things not seen. Without faith, it will never be real to you, because it can't be proven logically. God can't be explained.

Anyway, it's good to hear from you again!

Sherri, good to hear from you as well! Thank you for your prayers

Originally Posted by Esther

You don't question what men called scientist say but you question the Bible written over 2,000 years ago, with many different writers yet all inspired by God without contradiction. How can anyone help you when you have your mind made up that man knows more than God?

I don't necessarily believe the Scientists either. I am quite a skeptical person. It was just that doubt was introduced where there had never been doubt before.

I don't know that I would think that man knows more than God, but I do often doubt that we know anything about what God's thinking at all.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by scotty

I only have a problem with the line: "anytime 'they' want to".

Whether it is the infilling of the Holy Ghost or simply a refilling as you call it, or what many call 'prayer language' or 'praying in the Spirit', which is what I believe you are describing... either way, it is nothing that 'we' do, imo. It is when we enter into prayer and touch God on a spiritual level that one, even with your gift, can begin speaking in tongues. It is not us or you, it is the Spirit of God.

That being said, I stand behind my statement. I have a hard time believing God would willing be a part or allow the Spirit to move in a situation where man is 'testing' God.

Originally Posted by houston

Explain Paul's writing to the Corinthians.

Originally Posted by houston

If speaking in tongues is controlled by the Holy Spirit, then Paul knew better than God in it's use. 2 or 3, let one interpret.

Originally Posted by ctclady11

Obviously you were a little doubtful and confused about the whole speaking in tongues, or you wouldn't have posted the thread. All these fellow sisters did was speak the truth in their responses, not to put you down in any way but to help you! I will be praying for you sister!

I don't know if this will muddy the waters or what, but I should maybe add that I still speak in tongues occasionally. In fact, I never really stopped. It's not often, but then I don't really pray often. And it is always when I am really emotional. It's like, I am overcome with emotion and it's the only way to get it out.

I think that's what weirded me out, to be honest, the thought that if tongues aren't real, and therefore God isn't real...then what the heck is going on in my brain??