dead God?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No it does not cause us to become Trinitarian, anymore than using the word person does. Just because we agree with something a Trinitarian does does not make is Trinitarian. They say one God, so do we. They say Jesus is God, so do we. They say the Son Died, so do we. They say incarnation, so do we.

Im not afraid to use a term or phrase just because Trinitarians use it. I think that is inconsistent and illogical.

Trinitarians believe a Second person who was God died. They believe in three persons that are God,

So just admitting that Jesus is God and Jesus died....God died, does not make me Trinitarian.

I agree totally.

But if we use this logic of God experiencing what the man experienced, then we can say the HUMAN BEING experienced what the deity experienced.

I agree that the thought of the PERSON being manifested as a human being in the Son, as well as Deity, is the core issue here. But I think it is wiser to say that the PERSON experienced these things and not refer to Deity as experiencing them, if the humanity did, and vice versa.

We would never think of saying, The HUMAN BEING created the universe before Adam was created, becuase the person of a later manifestation of God, namely SON of God, was the person who created all. It really makes no sense to have to say anything about humanityu in creation. But since the person of the humanity of Christ is the same person of deity, one could argue as you do in this way. And what would be the purpose in saying the human being experienced creation? See what I mean? I think in some ways you are technically correct. I just see confusion coming out of it, as well as it being of no purpose.

We have to distinguish between what and who. If Father and Son are the same WHO then we are certainly NOT Trinitarian nor Unitarian. If Father and Son are NOT the same WHO then we got problems.

I agree. They are indeed the same WHO.

If we are Oneness and we believe there is only one Personal Deity and that God was incarnate in humanity, then Father and Son are the same Person. And if the Son died then the same person that is the Father also died.

Agreed. But saying GOD died is still offkey somewhat. Just as when saying the HUMAN BEING created everything.

The next question is HOW. How do we all experience death? Through a human nature. God through the Humanity experienced everything humans do except sin.

Actually, to avoid confusion, we should say the person of God experienced death through the human manifestation.

He knew what it was like to sleep, eat, be tired, suffer pain, suffer rejection and even death, the final thing that man can experience. He experienced it through His human nature.

So when I say God did die, I mean His person through the Human nature died. His Divine nature did not die. Divine nature can't die.

But though it may have some technical credence, I still think it only sends confusion.

BTW Mary is the mother of the humanity, but the person of God always existed so she is not literally the mother of Him personally. However one thing that should be noted: the original claim was that she was God bearer....in other words she carried God incarnate in her womb. That does not necessarily have to mean she genetically produced God HImself. Even a surrogate mother having an implant is carrying that unborn child, but did not genetically produce it.

I never use the term Mother of God ever though.

I know you did not. But those who consider this as you do have used that term. And I think your argument can be used by some to support it.