The 200 curse!!! - Page 7

Hoovie · #61 01-09-2011, 11:55 AM

I think we had over four hundred consistently at one time, but numbers are down a bit right now. While we have various ministries and a senior pastor as well as pastor, practically speaking I think the operation is the same as most UPC churches. (singular pastor)

RandyWayne · #62 01-09-2011, 12:53 PM

Well, wouldn't four churches of around 200 each be better then one that is 800 anyways? There would be so much more room for diversity as well as redundancy since any sort of 'scandal' would only effect the church it happened in, and not the other three.

Hoovie · #63 01-09-2011, 03:54 PM

Perhaps. But it seems a better plan would be to establish intentional plural Eldership to minimize impact of a leadership scandal. If the entire church structure is based on a single leader the impact to the church is much greater when there is scandal or moral failure.

Apocrypha · #64 01-09-2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

The 200 barrier is due to the fact that this size is about the largest that one pastor can effectively handle. If a pastor is less effective, than the number will be smaller. If he is more effective, than it will be larger.
If you find a pastor who has a great passion for souls and is a fantastic "manager" than you wind up with a church that will grow and grow!
The best growing church that I ever attended was/is pastored by a man who did not begin pastoring until he was in his 40's. He was a good business man and has applied a lot of the principles in his managing of the church.
Consequently, in 15 years, he has built a church from zero to 1200 people, now.

Sounds like Bobby Stewart in North Miami.

UnTraditional · #65 01-09-2011, 04:36 PM

Scripture declares that strait is the way. The word strait is an old English word for constricted. So, as ministers of the Gospel, one should not be concerned about how many are in the church, but instead should be sure that he is acting as a shepherd and not a goat herder. One would rather have 20 commited saints who are more desirous of of a life of obedience to the commandments of God, walking in repentance, striving against sin, instead of 200 carnal men whom you have to betray the Gospel to in order to keep the money coming in.

Apocrypha · #66 01-09-2011, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Scripture declares that strait is the way. The word strait is an old English word for constricted. So, as ministers of the Gospel, one should not be concerned about how many are in the church, but instead should be sure that he is acting as a shepherd and not a goat herder. One would rather have 20 commited saints who are more desirous of of a life of obedience to the commandments of God, walking in repentance, striving against sin, instead of 200 carnal men whom you have to betray the Gospel to in order to keep the money coming in.

I'd rather have a crowd of 2,000 - 20,000 folks of varying walks of life and faith levels who are listening to the gospel. There is no church in the history of the world that is like what you describe. If those 200 folks are in tune they are inviting a ton of folks in the door who in turn would make it a church of 300-400 folks of varying walks of life and faith levels...

kclee4jc · #67 01-09-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unitedpraise10

Why would anybody be happy with a church that isn't growing?? I'm talking about the churches that have been the same size for the past 30 to 40 years. There's something going wrong if this is the case. There are many churches like this today.

I know of several good Apostolic Churches that are growing and having revival. One is Bro Johnny Godair's church in Durham NC that runs well over 1000 and has seen MANY receive the Holy Ghost in the last year.

I will say this...growth does not necessarily mean they are actually in revival, however. There are times when God must actually move people out of a certain body in order to have real revival and that can appear discouraging at the time. Afterward souls will be able to be won.

Have you considered daughter works? Perhaps the congregation itself has not gown much in number through the years but has been a place where souls are being won and sent out to begin new works. Just a thought...

RandyWayne · #68 01-09-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I know of several good Apostolic Churches that are growing and having revival. One is Bro Johnny Godair's church in Durham NC that runs well over 1000 and has seen MANY receive the Holy Ghost in the last year.

I will say this...growth does not necessarily mean they are actually in revival, however. There are times when God must actually move people out of a certain body in order to have real revival and that can appear discouraging at the time. Afterward souls will be able to be won.

Have you considered daughter works? Perhaps the congregation itself has not gown much in number through the years but has been a place where souls are being won and sent out to begin new works. Just a thought...

I think far too many consider revival to mean that their church is growing, not splitting off with other congregations.