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03-29-2010, 08:50 PM
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Love God, Love Your Neighbor
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,363
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
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Originally Posted by Hoovie
That it's been that way for many in recent decades, does not make it any less harmful or without the need for reform.
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True.
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03-29-2010, 08:51 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Actually CC1, A healthy skepticism of "charismatics" is one very good thing the UPC has given me. Just not on the basis of salvation. Aside from questioning whether Charismatics are "saved" I have many questions for what has defined the Charismatic movement.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-29-2010, 09:49 PM
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"It's Never Too Late"
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,415
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Let's start the 'CYH' movement within Oneness Pentecostal movements.
As in 'Cut your hair' cause it does not make a difference in the will of God, the power of God, the Glory of God, the Baptism of God, the Anointing of God, the Favor of God, the Blessing of God, the Principal of God, the Grace of God, the Mercy of God nor the Heart of God. It does not increase the power behind a woman's faith, it does not increase the power of the Blood of the Cross, it does not move Angels, it does not cause demons to flee, it has never healed anyone. It simply is a glory to her, in terms of how we would say it in plain English today... good for her!
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03-29-2010, 10:12 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neck
Let's start the 'CYH' movement within Oneness Pentecostal movements.
As in 'Cut your hair' cause it does not make a difference in the will of God, the power of God, the Glory of God, the Baptism of God, the Anointing of God, the Favor of God, the Blessing of God, the Principal of God, the Grace of God, the Mercy of God nor the Heart of God. It does not increase the power behind a woman's faith, it does not increase the power of the Blood of the Cross, it does not move Angels, it does not cause demons to flee, it has never healed anyone. It simply is a glory to her, in terms of how we would say it in plain English today... good for her!
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I think that would simply be a pendulum swing. While I don't see the "magic" I do believe uncut hair qualifies as "long" and it's an acceptable way to view the passage.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-29-2010, 10:14 PM
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Incredible India
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ca
Posts: 6,044
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
I agree with you Hoovie.
For some, however, I think the whole woman's hair thing has become one of the key points in defining the radical sectarianism. People have been aggressively pushing this sectarian agenda ever since the merger and the sectarian extremists have had the upper hand.
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I was thinking this myself.
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03-29-2010, 10:42 PM
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"It's Never Too Late"
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,415
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
I think that would simply be a pendulum swing. While I don't see the "magic" I do believe uncut hair qualifies as "long" and it's an acceptable way to view the passage.
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Once the hair is cut it can therefore never there after be long. Does God grant repentance from cut to then become uncut once again to restore long? Just cut it and repent and it would then be long again in between cuttings! The uncut being long is a outmoded precept inline with the Affirmation statement that most ignore after they sign it.
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03-30-2010, 12:02 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Actually CC1, A healthy skepticism of "charismatics" is one very good thing the UPC has given me. Just not on the basis of salvation. Aside from questioning whether Charismatics are "saved" I have many questions for what has defined the Charismatic movement.
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Hmm....lets see. Most of the big televangelist scandlals were actually by
AOG ministers (Jimmy Swagart & Jim Bakker) so the Charismatics escape that particular definement. Not to say they have not had their share though with the likes of Bishop Earl Paulk who not only was a womanizer but fathered a child by his brothers wife no less.
The Charismatics have also left themselves plenty of room for criticism in what defines them by the excesses of the so called "prosperity" preachers who turned the gospel into a get rich quick scheme and then the wacko's going around preaching about "holy laughter" and other such non biblical things.
Just like most things in life you have to wade through the chaff to find the gold. There are plenty of balanced charismatic churches who do present the gospel accurately and work to disciple people for Christ.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-30-2010, 12:32 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Hmm....lets see. Most of the big televangelist scandlals were actually by
AOG ministers (Jimmy Swagart & Jim Bakker) so the Charismatics escape that particular definement. Not to say they have not had their share though with the likes of Bishop Earl Paulk who not only was a womanizer but fathered a child by his brothers wife no less.
The Charismatics have also left themselves plenty of room for criticism in what defines them by the excesses of the so called "prosperity" preachers who turned the gospel into a get rich quick scheme and then the wacko's going around preaching about "holy laughter" and other such non biblical things.
Just like most things in life you have to wade through the chaff to find the gold. There are plenty of balanced charismatic churches who do present the gospel accurately and work to disciple people for Christ.
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Yeah, just saying I am skeptical of most all who "made a name" for themselves...
Hinn, Tilton, Copeland, Terello, Crouch, White, Hickey et all.
PS when was the last time you rebuked the sickness devil, spoke to your wallet and declared yourself healthy and wealthy? Perhaps you need if good ole fashioned OBE.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 03-30-2010 at 12:35 AM.
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03-30-2010, 12:39 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
I agree with you Hoovie.
For some, however, I think the whole woman's hair thing has become one of the key points in defining the radical sectarianism. People have been aggressively pushing this sectarian agenda ever since the merger and the sectarian extremists have had the upper hand.
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I see that too I guess. HMH is simply one of the current tools...
The greatest and most devastating tool though is the one that says we have the special revelation and correct doctrine, and unless you come to Christ our way you have false experience.
Once we acknowledge Christ is in our fellow Christians, not because of, but in spite of our differences, then a lot of other stuff becomes less pivotal as well.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 03-30-2010 at 12:45 AM.
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03-30-2010, 01:48 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Anything More Important Than the HMH Debate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Yeah, just saying I am skeptical of most all who "made a name" for themselves...
Hinn, Tilton, Copeland, Terello, Crouch, White, Hickey et all.
PS when was the last time you rebuked the sickness devil, spoke to your wallet and declared yourself healthy and wealthy? Perhaps you need if good ole fashioned OBE.
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They all started off Pentecostal, at least in name. Crouch was or is AOG
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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