Hope! Action! Change!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's not going to hold. First, it's an Islamic culture. Second, there are outside forces such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Russia who are just looking destabilize Iraq.

Ah, but the good news is that Iraq and Iran have been enemies for a long time and a strong Iraq government will be able to discourage Iran from interfering. They share Shia believers but most Iraqi Shia don't want Iran dictating to them.

I am not sure why you think Saudi Arabia and Russia desire to destabilize Iraq.

BTW - One thing you don't really read in the media but my son pointed out to me is that a large majority of the Iraqi populatoin is secular. They make noises about religion but are what we would call "Sunday or Easter Christians" in our faith in America. Of course out of 25 million people you only need 10% to be religous zealots and you have 2.5 million!

Ibelieve the majority of Iraqis whoare secular for the most part will support a strong government and it doing what it needs to do to keep outside interference at a minimum.

However if we leave prematurely before the Iraq government is strong enough then your prediction will come true. That is the Irony. Libs / Dems would force us to cut and run and then when things would collapse they would try to say "we told you it would"! when they would have caused it themselves.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Thank you. Besides, their not racist...they espouse an ethnocentric theology. Big difference.

If you don't think what Jeremiah Wright was saying was not racist then we don't have enough reality in common to debate any further.

It was some of the most racist rantings I have ever heard. Right up there with any of the nutty things from the Ku Klux Klan.

I suppose father Plager or Flager or whatever who spoke at that church last Sunday was not calling Hillary a white supremecist?

I don't know what kool aid you have been drinking but it must have been spiked with something really strong.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by CC1

If you don't think what Jeremiah Wright was saying was not racist then we don't have enough reality in common to debate any further.

It was some of the most racist rantings I have ever heard. Right up there with any of the nutty things from the Ku Klux Klan.

His comments were ethnocentric yes...but racist no. Quite a few whites attend the church also. One of their leading ministers is a white lady.

I suppose father Plager or Flager or whatever who spoke at that church last Sunday was not calling Hillary a white supremecist?

Hillary does feel entitled. I think first, because she's a Clinton and her husband was President. Second I think it is because she's white. Bill Clinton and other high profile Hillary supporters have made quite a few indications that her campaign feels Obama is doing so well in some places and inner cities is because of his color.

I don't know what kool aid you have been drinking but it must have been spiked with something really strong.

Let's try not to get personal.

But that brings me to another issue. Why are Republicans are becoming so hateful and venomous? Don't you guys realize that you're turning folks off and offending good people who just disagree with you? You're not Sean Hannity and I'm not your guest to nail to the wall in front of your viewers...I'm your brother. Accusing people of being "cool aide" drinkers etc. isn't conducive to dialogue and conversational exchange.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Matthew 5:46
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Matthew 22:39
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Luke 6:32
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

John 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Ferd, liberals just have a different political opinion. Stop listening to Sean Hannity and try listening to a little bit of Jesus.

Ferd is talking about political ideology. Im sure if Barack was on the side of the road beaten up that Ferd would help him too. But what Jesus said does NOT make Obama a good choice for president

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Note: Republicans and conservatives are increasingly becoming mentally conditioned by the false prophets of Right Wing talk radio.

lol...you don't think Democrats and liberals don't listen to the anti Republican/conservative sound bites from talk show hosts, rock stars, movie stars and political wanna bes?

BTW many people on both sides of the political spectrum often listen to these people because they agree with them already, not because Savage worked voodoo magic and captures everyones brain.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Which tax bracket will that be and how much?

Usually the middle class bears the burden, but what difference does it make? You think he is gonna milk the super rich who supported his campaign?

On average every President has increased spending. It's disturbing, but a lot of that will be money saved from our strategic withdraw from Iraq.

Some more than others....sadly though Bush has failed miserably in this area, but I consider Bush an anomaly...I hope he is.

Our mission was to dethrone Saddam and eliminate his WMD capabilities...well...to eliminate him. Iraq is currently falling into a civil war between Iraqi factions. This war opening up on the heels of our mission is their war not ours.

I don't know if you realize this but in EVERY war we have been in we had a goal and we had an understanding that AFTER a war like the one in Iraq there would be a POST war police action and restructuring and stabilization. Colon Powell illustrated this before the war...so while our first goal was to destabilize Saddam's government, get him and those that were part of his government, our secondary goal was to set up a stable government and help it reform a police and military force and as well get the infrastructure repaired. We've done most of that....the government and the military/police force still need work on. Even Bush says we will have to get out of Iraq. The difference is Bush and a lot of Republicans don't see that the goals have completely been met yet to the point that leaving won't cause a total collapse.

BTW what do you think would happen? Here is the scenario I think will happen. Iraq will become another Iran politically and religiously. The minority Muslims and the Christians will be persecuted. Israel will have one more closer nasty neighbor to content with. Iraq will have essentially a puppet government of Iran or a close ally. They all amass weaponry aimed at Iraq and they will threaten our ally Saudi Arabia. They will corner the market almost on oil and raise our oil prices through the roof.

Lebanon will be completely taken over by Hezbollah and armed with more deadlier weapons aimed at Israel

Nope. He will negotiate lower premiums for citizens and subsidize private health insurance for those who cannot afford it. The health care industry itself will continue pretty much the same as it currently functions.

WHO will be "those that can not afford it"? The middle class? Probably not, but who will he tax to pay for it? The super rich? That's a laugh. I doubt George Soros wants to pay for every poor American to have health insurance. I am not against Health insurance either but usually it is the middle class bearing the burden while the super rich use all the loopholes to not pay for anything

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Thank you. Besides, their not racist...they espouse an ethnocentric theology. Big difference.

They espouse an AFROcentric theology. And quite honestly they probably are not racists, but they sound very much like leftists...and I don't mean "Democrat"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Actually he's for civil unions...as is McCain.

The problem is is that the Gay powerbase are Democratic to the far left. Eventually Obama and others will bow to them. We will see though if Obama is elected if he keeps his promise.

You mean like the Bush Administration?

How is the Bush administration pro abortion on demand for everyone and every situation?

Not true. Can you specify which tax bracket and the tax increase?

ROFL...if it is not true then what is the point in asking which tax bracket?

Investigating to find out if speculators and suppliers are driving up the price of oil is in America's best interests.

Talking heads. Come on...nobody is that naive...they are talking heads. They want YOU to think they are doing something about it but they end up doing nothing. I don't expect either side to really do much unless we start really complaining. But as long as we THINK they are doing something about it most Americans will just keep drinking the kool aid

Obama never used the term "bartering". Obama doesn't believe that a President should be a coward who hides in the Oval Office, but rather should personally approach world leaders on America's terms to specify America's intentions and personally tell them face to face how our interests are in their best interests.

Lol....yeah. He believes that...you believe that?

Already in a civil war.

Nope

Like Trotskyist neoconservatives and John McCain?

explain

Like it or not Farrakhan was a social force in America.

lol...so? What does that have to do with what I said? Nothing, just more obfuscation and red herring arguments.

Not close friends. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

how do you know that?

You mean like Bush?

explain

We went to war in Iraq to enforce the UN's resolutions. Iraq was no real threat to the U.S.

And?

Hard for Christians? Are you crazy? I got up, went to work, read my Bible at my desk, talked about salvation with two people in the break room, rushed home listening to Christian radio, got dressed and openly drove to church. Our services weren't interrupted by secret police nor were we followed home and harassed by secret police. Oh...I did have one issue...I realized I couldn't use government to control what others did because it offended my religious sensibilities.

No, are you an idiot? Not saying you are, just asking like you asked me if I was crazy. Thank God you can do that now....you really believe it's going to be status quo from here on out?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

But that brings me to another issue. Why are Republicans are becoming so hateful and venomous? Don't you guys realize that you're turning folks off and offending good people who just disagree with you? You're not Sean Hannity and I'm not your guest to nail to the wall in front of your viewers...I'm your brother. Accusing people of being "cool aide" drinkers etc. isn't conducive to dialogue and conversational exchange.

Are YOU crazy? Well? Are you? I find it funny how you talk about hate but ignore the hate rhetoric from someone like Jeremiah Wright or Farrakhan or how about Al Frankin? Come on, get out of the tunnel so you can have a panoramic view. Republicans don't have a market on hate or venomous words. In fact I see you whine a lot about others but then you spout your own venom.

[Aquila]

Prax let's zero in on two points. All candidates involved are pro-civil union. And while you and others claim that the gay lobby is the powerbase of the far left, you fail to see that the same was said of Clinton. But Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act. Also you fail to see that as more and more individuals and groups support Obama that typically don't support Democrats, he becomes less and less beholden to that traditional interest group.

Also it was claimed that making homeland security bargaining unit they would be able to strike. That's not true either.

These two points illustrate the blatant distortion of the facts you guys are engaging in. It's one thing to disagree about policy. We can go back and forth on health care and war strategy. But the facts are that all involved support civil unions and what was said about homeland security striking isn't true.