What's the difference?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Do you know this for a fact, or are you just assuming?

I know it for a fact.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Neither am I, but no one is going to have a clue what you are talking about. Especially using such a name as a reference.

I only remember seeing an image of a big alien with squiggly tentacles on his face. lol

Oh, here it is... lol

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I already explained myself.

Keep telling yourself that.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Now, your choice is to accept what I'm telling you and acknowledge the difference... or … you can live believing in your self created illusion regarding what I wrote to avoid having to actually "understand" what I'm saying. The problem is in your own mind, not with me.

Yes, you're always in the right. You're the hero AND the victim. You think on so many levels compared to us peons who are more literal and take things for how they're posted. We're not worthy.

You contradicted yourself. Period. End of story. Then you ran off until you could craft some kind of response for why you contradicted yourself. And the response is so typical you -- it's our fault, not yours. Noooooo, you didn't contradict yourself. We're mischaracterizing you, you poor, innocent, brilliant and multifaceted bearded man you.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'll reiterate the difference between what I'm talking about now and what you were talking about then...

There is no difference. You're trying to make up a reason, but there is none.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Would the pastor you spoke about back in March remove anyone from the platform that didn't conform to his preference?

No. As I stated in a post above, he asked me to help out in a service even though I had a 3 day growth of stubble.

I'd put you on ignore, but I have to admit, it's amusing (though annoying) watching you contradict yourself, then run off and come back with some lame response.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know it for a fact.

If you say so.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Keep telling yourself that.

You're a reasonable man. Be logical, not for my sake, but for your own mental and emotional wellness.

Who would be better to explain what I'm saying... you...someone else... or me, the one who said it?

Don't allow yourself to get so caught up in coloring the water like some radio talk show host playing "gotcha" reporting. Ask questions, let me explain, and truly allow yourself to see the various sides of what I'm explaining, from my perspective. Allow me to correct myself, clarify, or even moderate my position based on the good points that you and others have made that may in fact require me to do so.

I'm not static. I do moderate and even change my position when points made by others clearly indicate that my position is too rigid or radical. Sometimes I need to back up, reconsider the position I hold, and look at it from a different angle. This allows me to narrow down even more precisely what it is I'm for or against. Like, I'm not against pastors expressing preference. However, I am against a single person using their position to force that preference on others, especially when there is no Scripture to warrant doing so. You see, I'm not so convinced that I can never be wrong, or that I refuse to change or modify what I think about a subject.

Honestly, I fear those who can't change, modify, explain, or correct themselves. They are beyond being teachable or reasonable should new information surface. They hold to their own thoughts like little dogmas and become the prisoners of their own frozen logic. And, I think they take themselves too seriously.

Just allow me to explain and clarify myself should you have a question. Else, why even ask the question?

Would the pastor you spoke of back in March force a man with facial hair from the platform? This single question will draw a clear distinction between what I'm talking about vs. what you were talking about. It could also reveal that I misunderstood what you were saying back in March, me errantly assuming that the pastor you spoke about would remove someone over his personal preferences. In either case, we find what is really being said. We find the truth of what we both truly mean. And that is successful communication.

I mean, what are you going to do? Continue to stomp your feet and insist that I don't mean what I'm telling you? LOL

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Be logical, not for my sake, but for your own mental and emotional wellness.

That's rich, coming from you. I'm just saying.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Who would be better to explain what I'm saying... you...someone else... or me, the one who said it?

Hilarious. The answer is obviously the person who said it .... with a caveat: honesty. God Himself could tell you that your recent post contradicted your posts in March and you would argue against Him. You're simply not being honest with yourself or the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I do moderate and even change my position when points made by others clearly indicate that my position is too rigid or radical. I'm not so convinced that I can never be wrong that I refuse to change or modify what I think about a subject.

Clearly you change your opinion and have done so here on AFF. That is not the issue. The issue is that when you do, you claim it's just being multifaceted or that you're being mischaracterized. You refuse to own it and admit that you have modified your opinion. Again, clearly you modified your opinion from March. Just own it. Stop with this dumpster fire of excuses you keep posting.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

That's rich, coming from you. I'm just saying.


Hilarious. The answer is obviously the person who said it .... with a caveat: honesty. God Himself could tell you that your recent post contradicted your posts in March and you would argue against Him. You're simply not being honest with yourself or the rest of us.


Clearly you change your opinion and have done so here on AFF. That is not the issue. The issue is that when you do, you claim it's just being multifaceted or that you're being mischaracterized. You refuse to own it and admit that you have modified your opinion. Again, clearly you modified your opinion from March. Just own it. Stop with this dumpster fire of excuses you keep posting.

Honesty... let's try to see who is being disingenuous.

That can be discovered with a single question...

You honestly see no difference between a pastor who voices his preference and uses his authority to force it upon others and a pastor who voices his preference and, in a spirit of humility, allows others to take it or leave it?

Because that is our point of departure. That is where you're saying I flip flopped, when in fact I didn't. If you don't see the clear difference between the two pastors, you're just not perceiving the distinction I'm drawing. If you do see it, and insist on that not being what I mean, when in fact it is, you're being disingenuous, and just trying to color the water in the fear of acknowledging that you've been shown that there is in fact a difference... indicating that no, I didn't "flip flop".

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Honesty... let's try to see who is being disingenuous.

That can be discovered with a single question...

You honestly see no difference between a pastor who voices his preference and uses his authority to force it upon others and a pastor who voices his preference and, in a spirit of humility, allows others to take it or leave it?

Because that is our point of departure. That is where you're saying I flip flopped, when in fact I didn't. If you don't see the clear difference between the two pastors, you're just not perceiving the distinction I'm drawing. If you do see it, and insist on that not being what I mean, when in fact it is, you're being disingenuous, and just trying to color the water in the fear of acknowledging that you've been shown that there is in fact a difference... indicating that no, I didn't "flip flop".

You're going off on something else.

"""as a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires."""

This is where you flipped. When you posted this a couple ago, it was a complete 180 from what you previously posted in March.

I posted in March that a Pastor can "request" certain things for those on the platform.

You condemned that back then. You said a Pastor must follow the Bible. That if he was making requests outside the Bible, it was man's traditions. You condemned them. Mocked them. Said they didn't have the authority to do that.

But now you're saying ""as a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires.""

After I caught the flip flop, you ran off to figure out how to explain it and now want to claim that the difference is the actions of the Pastor. Nice try. The actions of the Pastor was not in question and has no relevance as to his role as Pastor giving him the ability to request what he desires.

That's the issue: whether a Pastor is within his role to request what he desires. Not the Pastor's actions on whether or not it's enforced or just a suggestion. The issue is whether his role allows him to make the request in the first place. First you condemned, now you say it's okay.

If you can't see that, then you're being willfully and purposefully ignorant and dishonest.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

You're going off on something else.

"""as a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires."""

This is where you flipped. When you posted this a couple ago, it was a complete 180 from what you previously posted in March.

I posted in March that a Pastor can "request" certain things for those on the platform.

You condemned that back then.

But now you're saying ""as a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires.""

After I caught the flip flop, you ran off to figure out how to explain it and now want to claim that the difference is the actions of the Pastor. Nice try. The actions of the Pastor was not in question and has no relevance as to his role as Pastor giving him the ability to request what he desires.

That's the issue: whether a Pastor is within his role to request what he desires. Not the Pastors actions on whether or not it's enforced or just a suggestion. The issue is whether his role allows him to make the request in the first place.

If you can't see that, then you're being willfully and purposefully ignorant and dishonest.

In the context of the discussion in March, was the pastor making such a "request" assumed to be one to enforce that "request" by removing men from the platform or penalizing them by refusing to allow them to continue in their function over facial hair? Yes or no?

[Aquila]

Dear Lord, I'm wondering how long he'll stomp his feet, clinch his fists, grit his teeth, and feverishly tell me what I meant over and over... as I continually explain it to him. Oh well. We're all at different places in our journey.

The need to be right is overrated, NDavid. What is true is what really matters.

What I was talking about in March is not the same as what I'm talking about right now. You can take that and accept it... or live the illusion of your own making. It's up to you.