Veil of flesh

[thephnxman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
oh, i'm dead serious, which is the funny part. Um, it just strikes me strange that these two, who were basically giving to the church, were killed for it; at the very opening of the Dispensation of Grace.

We are, of course, highly conditioned to distrust communism; but these were exemplars of a model of Christian apolitical communism, and so there are like (at least) 3 things going on in the story--early Church, led by the Spirit, and lying to the Church or Spirit commune for some imagined personal gain in the world. So while the punishment for basically attempting to ride a fence and lie about it seems just to me, in the very beginning of the age of Grace, it seems dissonant. "Where is the Grace?" iow.

Originally Posted by shazeep

no, i'm pretty sure that i clearly stated that the sentence seemed just to me.

You have the wrong perspective on this.
You must recall that it wasn't that long ago that [the SON of God] had been
crucified FOR THEM, also: and they had already allowed the iniquity of deceit
to enter their hearts.

The entity we know as Lucifer was cast out from God's presence because of
iniquity, but could not be punished for it because there were no laws. Ananias
and Sapphira, however, were born under the Law of Sin and death, and were
immediately punished.

[shazeep]

well, i am not getting the intention of the A&S story, in this particular location. Or prolly i am--that he who enters the Kingdom with reservations, or deceitfully, will perish--but at the opening of the dispensation of Grace? It comes across as...unusual? to say the least, imo. Perhaps it is just meant to be a very solemn lesson, as it is neither parable nor mythology.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Ananias
and Sapphira, however, were born under the Law of Sin and death, and were
immediately punished.

hmm. ok, ty, i'll sleep on that one.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i am not getting the intention of the A&S story, in this particular location. Or prolly i am--that he who enters the Kingdom with reservations, or deceitfully, will perish--but at the opening of the dispensation of Grace? It comes across as...unusual? to say the least, imo. Perhaps it is just meant to be a very solemn lesson, as it is neither parable nor mythology.

I once noticed it follows acts 4 where joses was admired and honoured for what he did, and it seems Ananias wanted the honour in a fleshly pride, but unrightfully. Self exaltation.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I once noticed it follows acts 4 where joses was admired and honoured for what he did, and it seems Ananias wanted the honour in a fleshly pride, but unrightfully. Self exaltation.

Amen.

[shazeep]

yes, that might be a bit closer to truth. It wasn't keeping some of the money--that was their own, anyway--that killed them, but lying about it. So my interest here is perhaps in why they were even asked "Is this all of the money from the sale?"

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, that might be a bit closer to truth. It wasn't keeping some of the money--that was their own, anyway--that killed them, but lying about it. So my interest here is perhaps in why they were even asked "Is this all of the money from the sale?"

It was the Holy Spirit that prompted Peter to ask.

[shazeep]

well, very good point. The Holy Spirit is going to shine a light into every crevice, huh?

[shazeep]

Might be some relevant wisdom in this reflection of Grace:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Grace is not a magic marker nor an eraser. It is POWER.

Grace is the power of the Holy Spirit given to all since the Day of
Pentecost: "...you shall receive the promise of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is unto you...".

We have received power to enter into our Sabbath, that we may
rest from our works (sins): "For he that is entered into his rest, he
also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."
Not having the power to resist sin, "...for all have sinned and come
short of the glory of God...", the Jews relied on keeping he promise of
the Sabbath; and not only that, but on animal sacrifices.

[mfblume]

Some thoughts I wrote about this.

Let us look at the enemy’s attempt to get advantage in this new and flourishing infant church, with such power and glory of God that the enemy just had to stop.

Acts 4:34-37 KJV Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, (35) And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. (36) And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, (37) Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Acts 5:1-5 KJV But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, (2) And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. (3) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost (LIKE THE QUESTION JOSHUA ASKED GOD – but translated into the spiritual progress of the kind of kingdom we are in), and to keep back part of the price of the land? (4) Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. (5) And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.


Ananias was so much like ACHAN in so many ways.

• Achan tried HIDING the forbidden bounty from Jericho as though GOD WOULD NOT STEP IN AND DEAL WITH HIM ABOUT IT.
• He found out that God was very real.
• God exposed the man.
• And he died as a result.

Annanias and his wife Sapphira likewise put forth a false front by HIDING something from the apostles and the rest of the church.

• They, too, died for it.
• But notice the details of the situation.

A man named JOSES, surnamed BARNABAS by the apostles, was so moved on by God’s Spirit when they were all filled that he sold some land he owned, and took the entire sales price and laid it at the apostles’ feet for them to help out the rest of the church members who had need.

This was the man we later read by the name of BARNABAS.

Ananias saw that.

• He connived a plan of selling some land as well, and bringing only PART of the profit he gained to the apostles but saying HE GAVE IT ALL.
• Peter perceives this using supernatural ability of the Holy Ghost – the gift of the word of knowledge – as God set out to deal with Ananias.
• Peter informed him that he was at full liberty to do whatever he wanted with the land and the money he sold it for.
• He could freely give PART of it to the church or give it all or keep all of it.
• But to give part and then LIE saying he gave it all, was another matter altogether.
• It was lying to the HOLY GHOST.
• What this means was that these apostles were under such supernatural influence and power of the Spirit of God after just having been filled with that Spirit that lying to them and the church was lying to the Holy Spirit.
• These men were like vessels of the Spirit of God to such an extent that Peter said lying to him was lying to the Spirit.

Ananias dropped dead that very moment of confrontation.

• No man slew him, but the power of God struck him supernaturally, and he fell to the ground dead without a human being touching him.

Stop and think about this situation.

• Why would Ananias want to keep part of the price of the money from the land and yet say he was giving the full price?
• This shows us something that God is very much concerned with.
• It shows us a very important concept that we have to keep in mind while we progress in the Kingdom of God.

We just read where BARNABAS did what Ananias LIED and said he did.

• Ananias was obviously following after Barnabas.
• But Ananias was not true-blue as Barnabas was
• Barnabas had sold out to God literally, and had given his all to the work of the Lord.
• He later was a minister who traveled with Paul, and they became the famous Book of Acts team of Paul and Barnabas.
• BARNABAS was obviously greatly esteemed amongst the church for a GENUINE self-denying act.
• Ananias must have watched the people react to seeing Barnabas give his all like this and WANTED THAT KIND OF REPUTATION AS WELL.

The evil of Ananias act was his DESIRE TO BE RESPECTED AND ADMIRED FOR BEING SPIRITUAL without actually being spiritual at all.

• It was a classic case of a FRAUD and a FAKE.
• Making people think he was a spiritual giant when he was no such thing whatsoever, and he knew it.
• Making a lie and USING GOD and the things of the Kingdom of God, like giving to the work of God so selflessly, IN ORDER TO VAUNT HIMSELF UP AND GET THE ADMIRATION OF PEOPLE.

What an awful act before God.

• Like Achan, tempting God and seeing if God would not detect what he was doing.
• And more than that, using GOD to get attention from people.
• For a person to not truly be spiritual, knowing spiritual people are often admired by the Church, and to set out to get that same reputation to be admired is incredibly vile.
• It is USING GOD.
• Using the appearance of what God actually did in such a humble man like Barnabas who was genuinely sold out to God, JUST TO GET ADMIRATION FROM PEOPLE is something the SPIRIT OF GOD WOULD NOT TOLERATE.
• Spiritual hypocrisy and fraud is ultimately a mockery of the very existence of God.

When self is so important to a person…

• That one takes a wonderfully precious example of a man who so truly loved God and the people of God and was so REAL that he sold land and gave ALL OF THE MONEY TO GOD’S WORK for the people’s help…
• And PRETENDS that is the case with oneself – when one could not be that self denying, seeing he was willing only to part with SOME of the money due to a covetousness that Barnabas obviously did not have – …
• One has to be desperate for attention and self glory.
• What opposite manners compared to a truly giving man who genuinely was what the people admired him to be.
• How low can a person get?
• How hypocritical?
• Wanting to look so self denying while the very deception of looking self denying is actually CRAVING FOR SELF WORSHIP.

For a man like Barnabas to do what he did, was certainly in no way done in order to be admired of the people.

• To deny self to the extent that one sells his land and gives the whole lot of money to the apostles is to least of all be even interested in getting admiration from people.
• Seeking to be admired by people is simply non-existent in someone like Barnabas who was so self denying that he sold his personal land and let it all go for the work of God.
• How CONTRADICTORY for Ananias!
• He craved attention so much that he would USE GOD and PRETEND to do what a genuinely Godly man did to get that attention.

Ananias and Barnabas were as opposite as opposites can be.

• Barnabas was so selfless that he sold his land and gave all the money away.
• Ananias would never part with all the money, but just HAD TO keep part of it, which was fine as long as he did not lie and say it was all.
• But he knew that he would personally be outdone by Barnabas, as far as he was concerned, if he said he only gave part of it away.
• He craved admiration so much that he would LIE using a godly example of Barnabas to get it.

I can picture Barnabas hugging his neck knowing how much self denial was required for such and act since he just did it himself, and Ananias loving it as people looked on.

• Then seeing the same ahhhh’s and ooo’s from the people that he saw give to Barnabas.
• Likely even imagining Peter complimenting him about his selfless deed, and it was so far from being selfless that it is hard to imagine it.

If there is something God is trying to highlight to us, by focusing on DECEPTION by a man of Israel as they conquered Canaan from one covenant and testament to another man in another covenant and the new testament who likewise acted in deception as though God was not real and it was not a serious thing to be honest before God and the world, …

• It is the truth that WE SHOULD NOT PRETEND TO BE ANYTHING SPIRITUAL THAT WE ARE NOT.
• God wants honesty.
• In the beginnings of a mighty move of God that would sweep the world and see the church as the largest religious movement on planet earth, considering all the people who claim to serve Christ…
• GOD HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS INTRUSION of the enemy.

Peter even said it.

• WHY HAS SATAN FILLED YOUR HEART TO LIE TO THE HOLY GHOST.
• Satan was seeking an inroad to this powerful work of God.
• And this is something to beware of even today in our work.
• GOD IS MOVING MIGHTILY.
• Whatever we do, let us ensure we are honest before God.

Think of the things we might be tempted to do, as Ananias did.

• Actually WANT people to admire how spiritual we are, when truly spiritual people are so selfless that wanting admiration from others is the last thing that can enter their minds.
• Seeking a spiritual reputation more than actually being real in the eyes of God as He watches us and see what we say to people.
• Living for the attention to ourselves as though God really is not real and is not up there watching the deception we are pulling USING HIM and THE THINGS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HIM AND HIS KINGDOM.

Perhaps Ananias saw that the apostles gave JOSES the name BARNABAS due to that selfless act of JOSES, since Barnabas means SON OF CONSOLATION – consolation means something or someone who brings comfort – alleviating misery… the misery of being is alleviated by his money that would go to help these poor people.

• Maybe Ananias thought of how GREAT he could be in getting a new name from the apostles as well!
• Imagine! To be named by everyone in the church by a name the APOSTLES gave to you!
• What a thing to be proud of!

His wife walks in three hours later and is asked by Peter if it was true that the money they gave was ALL the money from the sale of their land.

• She says yes, and is told the feet of the people who carried her husband out dead would carry her dead body as well.
• And she fell dead.