Are Infants Really Born Sinless?

[Jacob's Ladder]

Greetings to all posters.

I was browsing the "eternal/temporary torture" thread and read where someone suggested infants are born innocent? I do understand the sensitivity of an infant's death and their eternal status. However, are infants really born "innocent?

We've read that, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12), and we also know, "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).

If infants were born innocent and/or sinless, they would be "per-se" a duplication of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was sinless, but in order for Jesus to die, he had to become sin. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God ( 2nd Corinthians 5:21).

Thus, Jesus' murderer wasn't any individual but rather sin killed Him. If a child was born sinless, he/she would be exempt from Romans 5:12. Therefore, infants aren't sinless.

[Cindy]

I don't agree that infants sin. They can't willfully disobey God.

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I don't agree that infants sin. They can't willfully disobey God.

I respect your opinion. However, Romans 5:12 clearly states "death by sin;" "and so death passed upon all men." Death is existant due to sin. According to the scripture, death is passed upon all men (infants included because of the flesh) because of sin. Whether infant or adult, death is due to the sinful nature.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

I respect your opinion. However, Romans 5:12 clearly states "death by sin;" "and so death passed upon all men." Death is existant due to sin. According to the scripture, death is passed upon all men (infants included because of the flesh) because of sin. Whether infant or adult, death is due to the sinful nature.

You are not only taking the verse out of context but you are ignoring part of that verse

Rom 5:12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned:

Notice that word 'and'? That is a conjunction that connects two related thoughts,

Sin entered into the world by one man AND death by sin. Because of the sin of Adam ALL men will die

And now here is the context

Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:17 If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

See? Death was the result of one man's sin..Adam

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

See? Death was the result of one man's sin..Adam

We are in agreement, man became mortal due to disobedience.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

We are in agreement, man became mortal due to disobedience.

Man dies because of one man's sin, Adam, not because of our own.

Therefore your argument about Jesus needing to sin in order to die is false

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

I respect your opinion. However, Romans 5:12 clearly states "death by sin;" "and so death passed upon all men." Death is existant due to sin. According to the scripture, death is passed upon all men (infants included because of the flesh) because of sin. Whether infant or adult, death is due to the sinful nature.

First can i ask you what sin a child has commited.
Death came into the world cause adam sinned.

Now lets continue on with the context of verses and not try to abuse one with using the rest of the word of God.

2samuel 12
22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

Obvious that David thought the Child would go some were that he himself could follow. David being a rightous man didnt plan on going to hell. so one can assume with Confidence the Child was going back to God.



Mark 10:13-16 ESV
And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

amazing That God thought the kids belong to heaven


Last Part How can one Be judged by the word if they never heard it?
romans 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Jesus also stated
John 15:22

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

If some one wants to condem babies to hell, then i would say you would be a child of your father the Devil. Cause God said Children belong to heaven.

Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by acerrak

2samuel 12
22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

Obvious that David thought the Child would go some were that he himself could follow. ."

Yes, David would follow him to the grave.

Originally Posted by acerrak

Mark 10:13-16 ESV
And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

amazing That God thought the kids belong to heaven

If some one wants to condemn babies to hell, then i would say you would be a child of your father the Devil.

No, it isn't amazing. I can't derive your interpretation from the scriptures you posted. Jesus' message within those scriptures didn't indicate that children belong to heaven. He was implying you must become as a child.

Matt 18:3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Yes, David would follow him to the grave.





No, it isn't amazing. I can't derive your interpretation from the scriptures you posted. Jesus' message within those scriptures didn't indicate that children belong to heaven. He was implying you must become as a child.

Matt 18:3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

then show me your biblical stand point, can you show me were babies are condemed to hell?

Tell us how you get out of any scriptures that God condems babies to hell.
and again can you show me what Sin a baby has committed that they would be condemn for. what could the accuser of man accuse this baby of in front of God?

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Yes, David would follow him to the grave.





No, it isn't amazing. I can't derive your interpretation from the scriptures you posted. Jesus' message within those scriptures didn't indicate that children belong to heaven. He was implying you must become as a child.

Matt 18:3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

Lets look were david said he was Going. and he didnt state the grave.
pslams 23:6
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Now show me your biblical stand point, can you show me were babies are condemed to hell?

Tell us how you get out of any scruptures that God condems babies to hell.
and again can you show me what Sin a baby has committed.

Edit
I edited my post but for some reason it created a second post.