Obey Them that Rule???

Michlow · #1 04-05-2007, 08:17 AM

I am spinning this off from the Church Twice a month thread, where during a 'Fix Michlow' intervention, Heb 13:17 has been repeated many many times.

As I was thinking about it this morning, I had these thoughts:

I think we would all agree that we obey them ONLY within the bounds of Biblical truth, we are not going to obey if they tell us to do something that is wrong. So, really, if I don't think the thing I am being ordered to do is biblical, why is that rebellion? And if I obey when I DO believe that what I am being told is biblical, then am I really "Obeying" or am I just doing what I think is right anyway?

freeatlast · #2 04-05-2007, 08:24 AM

Just don't drink the kool aid.

ForeverBlessed · #3 04-05-2007, 08:49 AM

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

or in NIV

Matthew 23:1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

Michlow · #4 04-05-2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

or in NIV

Matthew 23:1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

He was talking to Jews, who were still under the Law, of course he was going to tell them that. But we are not under OT law, and I do not think that applies.

Praxeas · #5 04-05-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michlow

He was talking to Jews, who were still under the Law, of course he was going to tell them that. But we are not under OT law, and I do not think that applies.

That's rediculous, I suppose when Jesus said "do not commit adultery" that was under the law and so now it is ok to do? Or maybe it's not because the NT also tells us it's wrong...but what else does the NT tell us? "Obey them that have the rule over you"...gee that sounds oddly like Jesus saying to do what the pharisees told them to do, but don't do as they do.

ForeverBlessed · #6 04-05-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michlow

He was talking to Jews, who were still under the Law, of course he was going to tell them that. But we are not under OT law, and I do not think that applies.

Then I suppose that we shouldn’t take anything that Jesus said because it was all to the Jews...they were all under the law. Sure, lets scrap it all.

Sorry, I think there is a principle to be found in that scripture.

Everyone needs to be accountable to someone. They need to be accountable to a church body some where. If someone can't agree with the teachings of the church they're attending, then they need to find a church where they can submit to Godly authority.

Of course you might dismiss this as old testament.. but .. still, it is bible.

Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Everyone ... from the preacher to the saint needs to be submitted to spiritual authority and guidance in their lives.

Trouble with a lot of people today, they church hop or move around because they can’t ever agree with any pastor in any church they attend. #1 signal there might be a problem… not with churches, but with their inability to submit to someone spiritually.

Do I agree with every little thing my pastor teaches or believes? No, quiet frankly, I do not, but I still submit my life to a spiritual authority because I know it is the right thing to do.

If I truly thought he was in biblical error, then I would find somewhere else to attend.. but most definitely will not try to justify it or give me a right to fly solo… it just isn’t meant to be that way.

Michlow · #7 04-05-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

Then I suppose that we shouldn’t take anything that Jesus said because it was all to the Jews...they were all under the law. Sure, lets scrap it all.

Sorry, I think there is a principle to be found in that scripture.

Everyone needs to be accountable to someone. They need to be accountable to a church body some where. If someone can't agree with the teachings of the church their attending, then they need to find a church where they can submit to Godly authority.

Of course you might dismiss this as old testament.. but .. still, it is bible.

Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Everyone ... from the preacher to the saint needs to be submitted to spiritual authority and guidance in their lives.

Trouble with a lot of people today, they church hop or move around because they can’t ever agree with any pastor in any church they attend. #1 signal there might be a problem… not with churches, but with their inability to submit to someone spiritually.

Do I agree with every little thing my pastor teaches or believes? No, quiet frankly, I do not, but I still submit my life to a spiritual authority because I know it is the right thing to do.

If I truly thought he was in biblical error, then I would find somewhere else to attend.. but most definitely will not try to justify it or give me a right to fly solo… it just isn’t meant to be that way.

FB, I am guessing you just came to this thread, and haven't read through all the other posts since the one just responded to. So, I am going to give you a chance to catch up, because I think that I have already dealt with some of this. If you still have questions or comments that you think haven't been dealt with, please bring those to my attention.

Kutless · #8 04-05-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michlow

I am spinning this off from the Church Twice a month thread, where during a 'Fix Michlow' intervention, Heb 13:17 has been repeated many many times.

As I was thinking about it this morning, I had these thoughts:

I think we would all agree that we obey them ONLY within the bounds of Biblical truth, we are not going to obey if they tell us to do something that is wrong. So, really, if I don't think the thing I am being ordered to do is biblical, why is that rebellion? And if I obey when I DO believe that what I am being told is biblical, then am I really "Obeying" or am I just doing what I think is right anyway?

I agree Mich, but then comes the He said She said debate of Biblical truths.