This from a different thread ... still would like some feedback from the 3 steppers lurking about ...
--------------------------------------------------
Some say the thief on the cross was saved under the old covenant ... what does that mean to you,?
Some insist, that the covenant has no bite until the death of the testator yet the bible tells us Jesus promises the thief salvation before He (Jesus dies).
and ....
not to get too technical ....
the thief dies
after Jesus dies ...
so to say that he is judged under the law ... is inaccurate then under your parameters.
You reiterate that a covenant comes into force with the death of the testator: "For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives." (
Hebrews 9:16-17).
but Jesus predeceased the thief ...
"Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs." (
John 19:32-33).
Legs were broken to finish the job ....
Thus the thief died, unbaptized ... much less using the right formula, under the new covenant.
If it is not possible for a new covenant believer to enter heaven without baptism...what's the thief doing in Paradise? ... Which I believe is Mike from Arkansas original question.
One writer on the subject states:
Quote:
Quote:
Baptism was no more and no less expected in the thief's lifetime as it would later come to be. John's baptism was the will of God: "But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him." (Luke 7:3). Jesus' followers also baptized: "After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized." (John 3:22).
Astonishingly, some of the same people who will tell you that Jesus is telling Nicodemus about baptism in John 3:5, present-tense, will also tell you that...(Saving) Christian baptism was not instituted until the Day of Pentecost!
|
Keep in mind Jesus promises his salvation knowing full well He would die before the thief ... He's omniscient as God. Are you suggesting Jesus didn't know that thief would enter his reward ... during the "new convenant" era ... that requires baptism to be saved???
Surely the thief could have cursed God and not believed in the hours that he languished after Christ's death ... yet salvation is granted to a new testament believer looking forward ... to a dispensation you view as grace through obeying 3 steps to enter the New Covenant.
Surely Jesus knew what He was doing, no?
Furthermore ...No one has ever been acquitted by the law ... correct?
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
"We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for
by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." (
Galatians 2:15-16)
So when does the New Covenant have bite or go into effect??? Is it until He dies??, resurrects ???... the Day of Pentecost???
Did the thief still die under the Old Covenant ... and thus saved by the Old Covenant? Do you have Scripture to support this claim?
An answer to these questions is warranted ...
Hybrid Mode
