ON THE ISSUES-Every Political Leader/Every Issue

[TalkLady]

This makes it very simple to KNOW some things about the candidates (until they flip flop):

REPUBLICANS

JOHN McCAIN:

http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm

MIKE HUCKABEE:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Mike_Huckabee.htm

RON PAUL:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm
I can't help it...I still have to include him. I do agree with him on some positions.

DEMOCRATS

HILLARY CLINTON

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

BARAK OBAMA

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

[OP_Carl]

I nominate this as a candidate for yet another sticky.

[chaotic_resolve]

McCain - Rino - not voting for him. Besides the oft-noted fact that he's a hot-headed jerk who turned conservatives off back in the 2000 race when he spoke against Falwell and religious right - the guy is too old. If I'm running against McCain, I'd be getting his health records and making an issue out of his age and temper.

Huckabee - Good grief, no. Bad would be having Hillary as Prez, worse would be having the Huckster. The last thing we need is a preacher as president. I'm sure that's not going to be popular here, but think about how some act when given a little power over their congregation and then multiply that by being the leader of an entire country.

Paul - I like RP. Too bad he doesn't have a chance to compete in a Republican primary. His support comes mostly from Indie voters who aren't allowed to vote during the primary -- at least not where I live. I went to cast my vote for him the other day and was greeted by a sign that reminded me that my being a registered Indie voter disallowed me from casting a vote. Sure, Paul has his faults, but for the most part - I agree with him far more than I agree with any other candidate.

Clinton - Bill would be back in the White House ... need I say more.

Obama - Tell you what, I love listening to this guy speak. He knows how to connect with the people and his speeches are, well, JFK and MLK Jr - esque. Too bad he's such a Liberal. Though if he wins the Donkey nomination, and McCain wins the Elephant nomination ... be hard to choose between the two. I imagine I'd either boycott the vote or vote Obama.

Yeah, I dislike McCain that much.

Good thread, thanks for the links.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

McCain - Rino - not voting for him. Besides the oft-noted fact that he's a hot-headed jerk who turned conservatives off back in the 2000 race when he spoke against Falwell and religious right - the guy is too old. If I'm running against McCain, I'd be getting his health records and making an issue out of his age and temper.

Huckabee - Good grief, no. Bad would be having Hillary as Prez, worse would be having the Huckster. The last thing we need is a preacher as president. I'm sure that's not going to be popular here, but think about how some act when given a little power over their congregation and then multiply that by being the leader of an entire country.

Paul - I like RP. Too bad he doesn't have a chance to compete in a Republican primary. His support comes mostly from Indie voters who aren't allowed to vote during the primary -- at least not where I live. I went to cast my vote for him the other day and was greeted by a sign that reminded me that my being a registered Indie voter disallowed me from casting a vote. Sure, Paul has his faults, but for the most part - I agree with him far more than I agree with any other candidate.

Clinton - Bill would be back in the White House ... need I say more.

Obama - Tell you what, I love listening to this guy speak. He knows how to connect with the people and his speeches are, well, JFK and MLK Jr - esque. Too bad he's such a Liberal. Though if he wins the Donkey nomination, and McCain wins the Elephant nomination ... be hard to choose between the two. I imagine I'd either boycott the vote or vote Obama.

Yeah, I dislike McCain that much.

Good thread, thanks for the links.

Ok , to explain my response to your post, lets look above.

First off, the only reason you gave for not supporting Huck is that he is a preacher, so what are we suppose to assume.

Now that I have went back and read the above, I find myself too soft on you. You see, there is not a single political issue listed above in your entire post. As you notice in bold there is just opinionated ramblings with no political, social, or any other issues to agree, disagree or debate. Your reasons given above for your vote this year is based on ones religion, ones temper and age, or that you agree with one but don't say what.

I stand by my statement. Do us all a favor and don't vote. If you are going to vote then at least educate yourself.

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by scotty

Ok , to explain my response to your post, lets look above.

First off, the only reason you gave for not supporting Huck is that he is a preacher, so what are we suppose to assume.

Now that I have went back and read the above, I find myself too soft on you. You see, there is not a single political issue listed above in your entire post. As you notice in bold there is just opinionated ramblings with no political, social, or any other issues to agree, disagree or debate. Your reasons given above for your vote this year is based on ones religion, ones temper and age, or that you agree with one but don't say what.

I stand by my statement. Do us all a favor and don't vote. If you are going to vote then at least educate yourself.

*grin* Don't assume, scotty, it doesn't become you. No, I didn't get into a long, drawn out discussion on the issues - primarily because (if you noticed) links to their stances on the issues was already provided for in the first post. Guess that wasn't obvious enough for you ...

Let's delve into the issues, shall we ...

First up, McCain:

Iraq -
Quote from McCain on Iraq, from Tim Russert's Meet the Press: "Staying for 100 years OK, if US casualties are low." Sounds like commitment there. How many casualties are considered "low?"

For the most part, McCain's been steadfast on the Iraq War. This, besides out of control government spending, is his strongest card for conservatives.

Economy -
Quote from McCain: "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should," he said. "I've got Greenspan's book." (New Hampshire)

One more, "The issue of economics is something that I've really never understood as well as I should. I understand the basics, the fundamentals, the vision, all that kind of stuff, but I would like to have someone I'm close to that really is a good strong economist. As long as Alan Greenspan is around I would certainly use him for advice and counsel."

Another great quote from McCain: "I'm going to be honest; I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated." (Stephen Moore, 2005 WSJ Interview)

At least he's honest. : "I've got Greenspan's book." Haha. Seriously!?! You know the Dem campaign against him will make this an issue. This is Kerry in the silly looking astronaut suit; Dean's yell, etc.

He voted against the Bush tax cuts, but now says he wants to make them permanent. Which is it? Back when the cuts were passed he lamented that they only benefit the wealthy and left out the middle class - yet now he thinks they're good enough to be made permanent!?!

Another flip-flop was with the minimum wage increase. Voted against it ... and then voted for it.

Immigration -
In Arizona, McCain's about as popular as fur coat at a PETA convention. His flip-flops on the issue of immigration are well documented, including his current 180 from last years' push w/Kennedy to legalize illegals in the US. Now he says he wants to secure the border first. Again, which is it? Making them legal first or securing the border?

Spending -
This is about the only area I can agree with McCain on. Government spending, including the multi-million dollar "bridge to nowhere," is out of control. If there's anything he's been consistent with, it on the issue of controlling spending and keeping the lobbyists' influence minimal. (Though one of his own senior staffers happens to be the head of a very successful and lucrative lobbying firm. shhhhh)

There's more that could be discussed, but you can find it for yourself.

Scotty, your sniveling complaints about my remarks on McCain's age and temperament do play a factor regardless. McCain's 71 years old (72 if voted the next Prez), which will make him the oldest Prez starting out. And you're flat out of your mind if you don't think it will be a campaign issue for the general election. Also, Dems could use the Bush campaign's Kerry flip-flop moniker against McCain. On many issues, he's been the 'Maverick,' ie played both sides.

Now for Huck ...

I didn't mention anything about Huckleberry because he was mentioned in passing ... as a footnote to a post about McCain.

This will be brief, as I'm getting bored with playing this game of "what do you know about (insert candidate's name here)." Most of this is from the Cato Institute, a highly regarded source of information.

• Sanctioned by the Arkansas Ethics Commission 5 times - narrowly escaped sanctioning 9 other times. His ethical record is less than to be desired. Should he, by some miracle, become the nominee - look for the Dems to connect Huckabee's ethics with the current corruption in Congress.
  
• Increased the tax burden 47 percent.
  
• Biggest tax cut was about $15,000 (His tax increases were a little more than $500 million)
  
• Big Government? Spending during his term increased 65 percent (three times the rate of inflation). Gov't workers increased 20% and debt increased to nearly $1 Billion. (yes, that's BILLION with a "B").
  
• Huck wants the government to fund, direct and control - art and music programs in schools. Federal funding = higher taxes.
  
• About the only thing the Huckster is conservative about is being anti-abortion and anti-gay.

Now I imagine you'll respond with some retort of how that's not comprehensive enough for you, : One needn't have to research more into Hucks record to find reasons not to vote for the guy.

The reason most of my pastor/minister friends were infatuated with Huck to begin with was because he was a preacher. He uses the Bible in interviews and isn't afraid to invoke the name of Jesus during them either.

That's wonderful, it really is ... if he were running for the office of some religious organization. Unfortunately, when you pull back the curtains and go beyond his scripture quoting and use of cross-like images in campaign ads - there's very little for me, or any other fiscal conservative, to like about this candidate.

Again, just my (apparently) uneducated opinion.

Beam me up, scotty.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

*grin* Don't assume, scotty, it doesn't become you. No, I didn't get into a long, drawn out discussion on the issues - primarily because (if you noticed) links to their stances on the issues was already provided for in the first post. Guess that wasn't obvious enough for you ...

Let's delve into the issues, shall we ...

First up, McCain:

Iraq -
Quote from McCain on Iraq, from Tim Russert's Meet the Press: "Staying for 100 years OK, if US casualties are low." Sounds like commitment there. How many casualties are considered "low?"

For the most part, McCain's been steadfast on the Iraq War. This, besides out of control government spending, is his strongest card for conservatives.

Economy -
Quote from McCain: "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should," he said. "I've got Greenspan's book." (New Hampshire)

One more, "The issue of economics is something that I've really never understood as well as I should. I understand the basics, the fundamentals, the vision, all that kind of stuff, but I would like to have someone I'm close to that really is a good strong economist. As long as Alan Greenspan is around I would certainly use him for advice and counsel."

Another great quote from McCain: "I'm going to be honest; I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated." (Stephen Moore, 2005 WSJ Interview)

At least he's honest. : "I've got Greenspan's book." Haha. Seriously!?! You know the Dem campaign against him will make this an issue. This is Kerry in the silly looking astronaut suit; Dean's yell, etc.

He voted against the Bush tax cuts, but now says he wants to make them permanent. Which is it? Back when the cuts were passed he lamented that they only benefit the wealthy and left out the middle class - yet now he thinks they're good enough to be made permanent!?!

Another flip-flop was with the minimum wage increase. Voted against it ... and then voted for it.

Immigration -
In Arizona, McCain's about as popular as fur coat at a PETA convention. His flip-flops on the issue of immigration are well documented, including his current 180 from last years' push w/Kennedy to legalize illegals in the US. Now he says he wants to secure the border first. Again, which is it? Making them legal first or securing the border?

Spending -
This is about the only area I can agree with McCain on. Government spending, including the multi-million dollar "bridge to nowhere," is out of control. If there's anything he's been consistent with, it on the issue of controlling spending and keeping the lobbyists' influence minimal. (Though one of his own senior staffers happens to be the head of a very successful and lucrative lobbying firm. shhhhh)

There's more that could be discussed, but you can find it for yourself.

Scotty, your sniveling complaints about my remarks on McCain's age and temperament do play a factor regardless. McCain's 71 years old (72 if voted the next Prez), which will make him the oldest Prez starting out. And you're flat out of your mind if you don't think it will be a campaign issue for the general election. Also, Dems could use the Bush campaign's Kerry flip-flop moniker against McCain. On many issues, he's been the 'Maverick,' ie played both sides.

You'll notice under the spending portion, you posted, it solidly goes with what McCain said about voting against the tax cuts. He said they were not cutting spending costs and he wanted to have both, so he voted against them.

I can see the going back and forth on the immigration issue. Many don't know which solution is going to work best. We do want them here and we don't.

We haven't actually solved this issue. I don't have any answers. I know I just don't want them here illegally and undocumented.

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You'll notice under the spending portion, you posted, it solidly goes with what McCain said about voting against the tax cuts. He said they were not cutting spending costs and he wanted to have both, so he voted against them.

Okay, so using that reasoning ... has Congress cut any spending costs to justify McCain's sudden desire to make the tax cuts permanent? We just had a, what?, 3.1 TRILLION dollar budget sent from Bush to Congress.

In it includes yet another increase for military spending, albeit we're dumbing down our kids by cuts to education; and we're crippling the economy and other areas with cuts to agriculture, transportation, the interior, etc.

So where are the cuts in spending to justify McCain's desire to make the tax cuts permanent? The record doesn't match the rhetoric.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

*grin* Don't assume, scotty, it doesn't become you. No, I didn't get into a long, drawn out discussion on the issues - primarily because (if you noticed) links to their stances on the issues was already provided for in the first post. Guess that wasn't obvious enough for you ...

Let's delve into the issues, shall we ...

First up, McCain:

Iraq -
Quote from McCain on Iraq, from Tim Russert's Meet the Press: "Staying for 100 years OK, if US casualties are low." Sounds like commitment there. How many casualties are considered "low?"

Put it in context, he wasn't talking about the war lasting that long, he was talking about having troops present. You know like, Korea, Vietnam, Germany, Japan. Places we have had troops since WWI.

For the most part, McCain's been steadfast on the Iraq War. This, besides out of control government spending, is his strongest card for conservatives.

Economy -
Quote from McCain: "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should," he said. "I've got Greenspan's book." (New Hampshire)

One more, "The issue of economics is something that I've really never understood as well as I should. I understand the basics, the fundamentals, the vision, all that kind of stuff, but I would like to have someone I'm close to that really is a good strong economist. As long as Alan Greenspan is around I would certainly use him for advice and counsel."

Another great quote from McCain: "I'm going to be honest; I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated." (Stephen Moore, 2005 WSJ Interview)

At least he's honest. : "I've got Greenspan's book." Haha. Seriously!?! You know the Dem campaign against him will make this an issue.

Not really, who do you think Bill Clinton got his on-the-job economics ed from?

This is Kerry in the silly looking astronaut suit; Dean's yell, etc.

He voted against the Bush tax cuts, but now says he wants to make them permanent. Which is it? Back when the cuts were passed he lamented that they only benefit the wealthy and left out the middle class - yet now he thinks they're good enough to be made permanent!?!

Yeah I know, funny isn't it. Kinda like he was saying for years that we needed more troops in Iraq and everyone laughed and threw tomatoes at him, yet now that it's working everyone is on board. lol . yeah I get it.

Another flip-flop was with the minimum wage increase. Voted against it ... and then voted for it.

Immigration -
In Arizona, McCain's about as popular as fur coat at a PETA convention. His flip-flops on the issue of immigration are well documented, including his current 180 from last years' push w/Kennedy to legalize illegals in the US. Now he says he wants to secure the border first. Again, which is it? Making them legal first or securing the border?

Spending -
This is about the only area I can agree with McCain on. Government spending, including the multi-million dollar "bridge to nowhere," is out of control. If there's anything he's been consistent with, it on the issue of controlling spending and keeping the lobbyists' influence minimal. (Though one of his own senior staffers happens to be the head of a very successful and lucrative lobbying firm. shhhhh)

There's more that could be discussed, but you can find it for yourself.

Scotty, your sniveling complaints about my remarks on McCain's age and temperament do play a factor regardless. McCain's 71 years old (72 if voted the next Prez), which will make him the oldest Prez starting out. And you're flat out of your mind if you don't think it will be a campaign issue for the general election. Also, Dems could use the Bush campaign's Kerry flip-flop moniker against McCain. On many issues, he's been the 'Maverick,' ie played both sides.

Now for Huck ...

I didn't mention anything about Huckleberry because he was mentioned in passing ... as a footnote to a post about McCain.

This will be brief, as I'm getting bored with playing this game of "what do you know about (insert candidate's name here)." Most of this is from the Cato Institute, a highly regarded source of information. (lol , by who?)

• Sanctioned by the Arkansas Ethics Commission 5 times - narrowly escaped sanctioning 9 other times. His ethical record is less than to be desired. Should he, by some miracle, become the nominee - look for the Dems to connect Huckabee's ethics with the current corruption in Congress. Yes , you should have been here for that, we here in Arkansas loved it. Mainly because it was brought out by Democrats.
• Increased the tax burden 47 percent. The average state tax increase during his term was 62%, he did better than most
  
• Biggest tax cut was about $15,000 (His tax increases were a little more than $500 million) The tax rate was the same when he left office as it was when he entered. Two of the largest tax increases were the road tax(which we arkansans voted for) and a tax forced on us by an Arkansas Supreme Court ruling in order to pay for Hillary's left over education system. Both were repealed when the job was done. As I said, all taxes were repealed once their purpose was done.
  
• Big Government? Spending during his term increased 65 percent (three times the rate of inflation). Gov't workers increased 20% and debt increased to nearly $1 Billion. (yes, that's BILLION with a "B"). Have no idea where this one come from, Huckster left office with our state in a $8.4 million surplus.
  
• Huck wants the government to fund, direct and control - art and music programs in schools. Federal funding = higher taxes. Beats the heck out of funding universal health care.
  
• About the only thing the Huckster is conservative about is being anti-abortion and anti-gay.

Now I imagine you'll respond with some retort of how that's not comprehensive enough for you, : One needn't have to research more into Hucks record to find reasons to vote for the guy.

The reason most of my pastor/minister friends were infatuated with Huck to begin with was because he was a preacher. He uses the Bible in interviews and isn't afraid to invoke the name of Jesus during them either.

That's wonderful, it really is ... if he were running for the office of some religious organization. Unfortunately, when you pull back the curtains and go beyond his scripture quoting and use of cross-like images in campaign ads - there's very little for me, or any other fiscal conservative, to like about this candidate. Why not?!?! the other side shuns it like it's taboo but then want to tought it once they are in office. At least he is honest up front about it and I don't have to worry about what he is doing with a cigar in the oval office nor whether or not he knows the definition of "is"

Again, just my (apparently) uneducated opinion.

Apparently, We had the Huckster for 2 terms, re-elected twice, . I would hardly be supporting him if what you posted was actually true. Impressive study, just bad resources.


Beam me up, scotty.

Not ready for you, only intelligent life up here.

jk

.

[OP_Carl]

I imagine I'd either boycott the vote or vote Obama.

Yeah, I dislike McCain that much.

yet another conservative contemplating a suicide vote . . .

[Pressing-On]

McCain's GOPAC Speech

(excerpted)

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/J...addresses_cpac

John McCain Addresses CPAC
By John McCain
Thursday, February 7, 2008

John McCain addressed the CPAC convention on Thursday, February 7th with the following remarks:


I began by assuring you that we share a conception of liberty that is the bedrock of our beliefs as conservatives. As you know, I was deprived of liberty for a time in my life, and while my love of liberty is no greater than yours, you can be confident that mine is the equal of any American's. It is a deep and unwavering love. My life experiences in service to our country inform my political judgments. They are at the core of my convictions.

I am pro-life and an advocate for the Rights of Man everywhere in the world because of them, because I know that to be denied liberty is an offense to nature and nature's Creator. I will never waver in that conviction, I promise you. I know in this country our liberty will not be seized in a political revolution or by a totalitarian government. But, rather, as Burke warned, it can be "nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts." I am alert to that risk and will defend against it, and ta ke comfort from the knowledge that I will be encouraged in that defense by my fellow conservatives. You have heard me say before that for all my reputation as a maverick, I have only found true happiness in serving a cause greater than my self-interest. For me, that cause has always been our country, and the ideals that have made us great. I have been her imperfect servant for many years, and I have made many mistakes. You can attest to that, but need not. For I know them well myself. But I love her deeply and I will never, never tire of the honor of serving her. I cannot do that without your counsel and support. And I am grateful, very grateful, that you have given me this opportunity to ask for it. Thank you and God bless you.