Where do we get church buildings?

Godsdrummer · #1 08-21-2010, 09:07 AM

In responding to a other thread, this idea came to me. In Old testement times God only had one tabernacle/temple. The Nation only came to Jerusalem/where the tabernacle was, during the feast days. There were no local places of meeting. These came about when the nation divided and the northern king did not want the people to go to Jerusalem for fear that they would joint the southern kingdom. So he built a synogog. This was against Gods commandment.

So with thought in mind the early church held their own family studies at home as they always did. This is where to first church met. They did not have large groups as we seem to think we need today. Therefore what did the pastor, pastor?

We do not get the type of church meeting like we have today until after Constitine combined idolitry with Christianity. Further the priest hood with control over the group was not a Jewish trait. The priesthood did not have control over the people. But idol worshiping priest did.

So the question is why do we defend our present day heigharcy in the church when seems that this is not the way God set things up in the beginning?

A.W. Bowman · #2 08-21-2010, 03:23 PM

You sure know how to use your stick when you find a big pot to stir.

Sam · #3 08-21-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

In responding to a other thread, this idea came to me. In Old testement times God only had one tabernacle/temple. The Nation only came to Jerusalem/where the tabernacle was, during the feast days. There were no local places of meeting. These came about when the nation divided and the northern king did not want the people to go to Jerusalem for fear that they would joint the southern kingdom. So he built a synogog. This was against Gods commandment.

So with thought in mind the early church held their own family studies at home as they always did. This is where to first church met. They did not have large groups as we seem to think we need today. Therefore what did the pastor, pastor?

We do not get the type of church meeting like we have today until after Constitine combined idolitry with Christianity. Further the priest hood with control over the group was not a Jewish trait. The priesthood did not have control over the people. But idol worshiping priest did.

So the question is why do we defend our present day heigharcy in the church when seems that this is not the way God set things up in the beginning?

It is my understanding that the synagogue developed as a meeting place while the Jews were in captivity and the Temple was destroyed. Then, the synagogue continued as a local meeting place for hearing the Word and distribution of food to the needy as Jews were returned to their homeland or as they settled throughout the world. It is my understanding that the local church of Christianity is patterned after the local synagogue of Judaism, organized with elders, teachers, and shammashim.

A.W. Bowman · #4 08-21-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

It is my understanding that the synagogue developed as a meeting place while the Jews were in captivity and the Temple was destroyed. Then, the synagogue continued as a local meeting place for hearing the Word and distribution of food to the needy as Jews were returned to their homeland or as they settled throughout the world. It is my understanding that the local church of Christianity is patterned after the local synagogue of Judaism, organized with elders, teachers, and shammashim.

Real close there Jim. As always, you do good!

A few additional comments:

The synagogue is known as the House of Instruction (or Learning), for that was/is its main purpose. This is where Jewish children go for shul, i.e. instruction in the Hebrew language, Jewish history, and of course Torah. Adults (men) also spent their time at the synagogue studying Torah, and the other holy writings and the oral Law. The local synagogue would never be referred to as The House of God, so many today refer to their local church building. The only house of God recognized by the Jews and by God were the two Temples and the Tabernacle in the wilderness. For it was only in those three places that the shekinah glory (or presence) of God actually resided among the people.

The weekly Shabbat worship, except for the three high holy days where all male Jews were required to present themselves at the Temple, were conducted at home. The Shabbat 'services' were spent in the giving and receiving instructions in Torah by all adult Jews, as noted in Luke 4:15-22 and Acts 13:5; 14-15, & 14:1, as examples.

The general congregational functions, organization, structure and purpose were established by the Church of Rome during the 4th and 5th centuries, when they started their religious building programs. The churches facilities and its priests were created in order to facilitate the indoctrination and control of the local believers by Rome. Constantine worked very hard to eradicate all Jewish influence from the 'his' new church, and was very successful in that effort.

When it comes to meeting places, I think we will find that we still have more in common with Rome, than with the Jews. Unfortunately.

Godsdrummer · #5 08-22-2010, 08:45 AM

Thanks AW Bowmen

Here is the passaged where Jeroboam set up the place of worship in Bethel and Dan to keep Isreal from going to Jerusalem.

1Ki 12:26 And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David:
1Ki 12:27 If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah.
1Ki 12:28 Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
1Ki 12:29 And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan.
1Ki 12:30 And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan.
1Ki 12:31 And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi.
1Ki 12:32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.

So again I drive the simple point home, what did the pastors pastor in early church times if the body was not a collective group like we have today.

So with thought in mind what would Paul have been talking about in Ephesians 4 that so many like to call the five fold ministry?

Digging4Truth · #6 08-22-2010, 01:31 PM

I think this is on subject but if it isn't then feel free to ignore it and move on.

Question.

When was there ever a commandment given to build any temple, tabernacle or synagogue outside of instruction to build the tabernacle in the wilderness?

(And this is an honest question. I don't know of any other command but I am asking in case someone else can point out a command I am not remembering.)

Godsdrummer · #7 08-22-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I think this is on subject but if it isn't then feel free to ignore it and move on.

Question.

When was there ever a commandment given to build any temple, tabernacle or synagogue outside of instruction to build the tabernacle in the wilderness?

(And this is an honest question. I don't know of any other command but I am asking in case someone else can point out a command I am not remembering.)

Good question,
As far as I know there never ever was, it was Davids idea that God needed a house that was stationary. It is my thought that God directed Moses to construct the taberncle as a movable structure as God wanted us to know God was with us wherever we go not just in one place. God came and comes to us we do not go to him.

Jesus said you have not chosen me I have chosen you. He wants us to know that he is with us wherever we go.

Digging4Truth · #8 08-22-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Good question,
As far as I know there never ever was, it was Davids idea that God needed a house that was stationary. It is my thought that God directed Moses to construct the taberncle as a movable structure as God wanted us to know God was with us wherever we go not just in one place. God came and comes to us we do not go to him.

Jesus said you have not chosen me I have chosen you. He wants us to know that he is with us wherever we go.

A study that has come across my mind (but I have not yet pursued) is this.

God commanded the building of the wilderness tabernacle. He commanded that the Holy Place be made of animal skins. In the Holy Place was where we found the Ark of the OT Covenant etc

God never commanded (as far as I have found) these great edifices that were built later.

Could it be that God's plan has always been that His Spirit was contained in skin? First in the animal skins of the tabernacle and then later on inside us?

Just a thought.

Godsdrummer · #9 08-22-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

A study that has come across my mind (but I have not yet pursued) is this.

God commanded the building of the wilderness tabernacle. He commanded that the Holy Place be made of animal skins. In the Holy Place was where we found the Ark of the OT Covenant etc

God never commanded (as far as I have found) these great edifices that were built later.

Could it be that God's plan has always been that His Spirit was contained in skin? First in the animal skins of the tabernacle and then later on inside us?

Just a thought.

That's my thoughts

A.W. Bowman · #10 08-22-2010, 02:45 PM

No, there was no command to build a second tabernacle or a Temple. The Temple was David's idea. However God approved of the plan, but would not allow David to be its builder. By God's command, that task then fell to David's son, Solomon. See 1 Kings 5 and 1 Kings 8:17-31.