Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The D.A.'s Office
Facebook

Notices

The D.A.'s Office The views expressed in this forum are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of AFF or the Admin of AFF.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-03-2007, 09:40 AM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
The Difference between PCI, PAJC and the New Heritage False Claiming Posers

I for one am a little weary of the attempts by some on the forum who claim heritage w/ the original PAJCers and 3 steppers of yesteryear.

Yet, I am thankful for internet forums that allow truth to be spoken.

For about 2 to 3 generations, we know that men of diverse beliefs on the idea of New Birth tried to fellowship and co-exist under a noble experiment and failed primarily when they were forced to leave the UPCI in the 1990's.

Although the same Fundamental Doctrine that asked both sides to not contend for the disunity of the faith ... and is touted by today's posers as part of the AS that ALL MINISTERS MUST ADHERE TO ... was ignored by hate-filled radicals, almost from the fellowship's inception, and by those who have remained in this presently waning fellowship.

Yes, the merger sought to unite a group of primarily white Oneness preachers under Acts 2:38. The fact is the only thing these men had in common was their shared belief of the Godhead and performing baptism in Jesus name. As to the significance of Acts 2:38 and the New Birth they differed greatly.

Shamefully, today those who rewrite and skew our history leave out important components of our shared Apostolic Oneness history while lifting the banner of our Acts 2:38 heritage.

As a person who was raised in the Oneness Apostolic movement I know the emphasis put on the idea of Heritage ...

it is a value reified by the culture.

It is harped on from pulpits ... it is a central theme of many conferences ... and is a focal point of a lot of the literature I've read since my childhood.

History is presented as to scaffold this value of 3-step Holiness Apostolic heritage and used to validate their existence and the extra-biblical truths held by many.

Just early this year, A Mangun stepped up before those at BOTT 2007 ... making his famous/infamous remarks in support of television advertising ... and as part of his presentation he sought to use photos of his dad ... and persuaded the crowd that he was still TRUE TO HIS HERITAGE.

The heritage badge is arrogantly worn by the radicalized Ultracon zealots who use snippets of skewed history to validate their heritage and make themselves victims of the schism of the early Pentecostal movement called the "New Issue".

Today's PCI Oneness Apostolic compromisers and charismatics are belittled as not being true or embarrassed of their heritage ... and even MUSH.

What is bothersome and disingenous in all of this is that those who glorify and champion their heritage ... while playing the victim and stating they monopolize ALL TRUTH ....

fail to realize that in their zeal to revise history books AND present the truth... they are the one's not true to the heritage ... our history truly reveals.

The truth is ... that the early Oneness pioneer GIANTS like Haywood, Urshan, Goss, Clyde Haney ... and most others never considered Trinitarians as lost ... fellowshipped with them regularly ... preached in their events and had them preach in their own.

Facts show that PCI men like Goss and Small even started fellowships w/ Trinitarians in an effort to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as evident w/ the early formation of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada.

Even the General Assemblies, circa 1918, here in the States allow for Trinitarians and Oneness believers to shortly co-exist with the New Issue not being a centerpoint.

Yet, by 1925-30 ... and attempt to create solely Oneness Apostolic entities was marked by some success but also fragmentation and division ... the latter is still w/ us today.

Apostolic whites and blacks chose to divide over racial lines.

When the UPCI formed the real radical zealot 3 -steppers stayed w/ the real PAJC as not to fellowship w/ those "weak on doctrine"

Even from the onset of the UPCI merger, criticisms abounded when Goss, a one-stepper took office as the first General Supt. of the newly formed UPCI the radicals chose to take him out of office because of his "weakness" ... succeeding in the early 50's. This is the same one-stepping Howard Goss, that believed BAPTISTS WERE SAVED.

The org continued to remain somewhat unified throughout the 50's to 70's suffering various schisms ... and then the radical zealots rose up again in the 1970's when questions of which New Birth doctrine was being preached overseas, namely Colombia, and add demand the addition of "for the remission of sins" to the Fundamental Doctrine.

In 1990, the 3 step radicals finally succeeded in doing away w/ the one steppers w/ the passing of the Westburg resolution and the institution of the Affirmation Statement.

Those of the Oneness 1 step persuasion realized that co-existence w/ a group that seek disfellowship rather than fellowship were shown the door ....

With the post AS schism of the 1990's, many of these 2cd/3rd generation one-stepping Apostolics had no problems joining w/ Trinitarians in fellowships like Global Network. Why? Because they realized that most of the radicalized 3 steppers would never consider them as truly brethren.
The facts are plain ... 2cd and 3rd generation PCIers, especially from Ten. and Canada can tell you ... the stories of what really happened during the noble failed experiment. Once again, history paints a truly different picture than those zealouts who are far removed from the hetitage of the past.

Today the new "Heritage" posers claim unity in purpose and direction w/ the PCIers and PAJCers of the past... yet they still seek to disfellowship and berate their views and doctrine TODAY.

Ironically, today this spirit of disunity has ripped the UPCI again. The very AS that sought doctrinal purity is pushing the ultra-radicals out.

In conclusion, facts show that the early PCIers and PAJCers had very different views with those who will not consider Trinitarians as saved and will not fellowship w/ those who look, dress, act and believe like them.

This is in sharp contrast, several generations later. ... of a radicalized element within our Oneness ranks that through propaganda and lack of scholarship have whitewashed our history and true heritage while disfellowshipping even eating their own]their own without abandon.

Is truth limited to repeating the mantra of Acts 2:38 ... presenting soteriological and Christological views? Are we not to be truthful in all things ... such as our history and applicatation of bible-based holiness principle?

Those who drumbeat heritage are nominally Apostolics ...

To misquote my friend Ferd ...

"there is a very big difference between what is the new fangled PAJC and what was the light PAJC view of old."


Yes, both sides have evolved ... with 3 steppers making their circles smaller and smaller ... with continued in-fighting among each other ...

while PCIers have returned to their roots of open fellowship and seeking unity w/ the entire Body of Christ.

But I still love the posers.


Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-03-2007, 09:52 AM
Raven's Avatar
Raven Raven is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,287
Amen!!! Good words Dan. Well written and correct.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-03-2007, 09:59 AM
Sherri's Avatar
Sherri Sherri is offline
Christmas 2009


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 9,788
This whole idea is amazing to me; what happened to the unity of the brethren? Very very sad.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-03-2007, 10:00 AM
Ferd's Avatar
Ferd Ferd is offline
I remain the Petulant Chevalier


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 17,524
oh huey.
__________________
If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
My Countdown Counting down to: Days left till the end of the opressive Texas Summer!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-03-2007, 10:05 AM
Nahum Nahum is offline
Registered User


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,102
Hilarious.

Let me recap, you claim that real Apostolics believe that:

1. The Holy Ghost is a second blessing,
2. Baptism is not necessary,
3. The mode of baptism doesn't matter,
4. Trinitarianism is acceptable,

and then claim to be the guardian of Apostolic truth?


Hello?

Get real.

The truth is you have compromised everything.

But I still love you.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-03-2007, 10:38 AM
SDG SDG is offline
Guest


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
Hilarious.

Let me recap, you claim that real Apostolics believe that:

1. The Holy Ghost is a second blessing,
2. Baptism is not necessary,
3. The mode of baptism doesn't matter,
4. Trinitarianism is acceptable,

and then claim to be the guardian of Apostolic truth?


Hello?

Get real.

The truth is you have compromised everything.

But I still love you.
I'm sorry ... PP ... have you read my original post?? ... if you want to debate doctrine ... we can ...on the many threads on this forum about the New Birth ...

I'm talking about false claiming in this thread ... care to address why you are not true to your heritage?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-03-2007, 10:39 AM
J-Roc's Avatar
J-Roc J-Roc is offline
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Applause! Applause! Applause!

This is a masterpiece...this needs to get 3 stickys and get posted on all bulletin boards.

Applause! Applause! Applause!
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-03-2007, 10:41 AM
J-Roc's Avatar
J-Roc J-Roc is offline
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
I suggest you copyright this Dan...

...think and grow rich...
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-03-2007, 11:02 AM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
Dan,

I don't consider myself to have the Apostolic heritage as you describe. My Father's side are Catholic and my mom's side are not religious. The faith of my fathers means nothing to me unless you're referring to the early church in the book of Acts.

My Apostolic heritage is what is taught in the New Testament by the Apostles. Church history (from the time of the early church fathers until now) is interesting to read and see how doctrines came about and what reasoning people used to form those doctrines but the word of God is our basis for truth. Once you find the truth...buy it and sell it not.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-03-2007, 11:03 AM
J-Roc's Avatar
J-Roc J-Roc is offline
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Dan,

I don't consider myself to have the Apostolic heritage as you describe. My Father's side are Catholic and my mom's side are not religious.

My Apostolic heritage is what is taught in the New Testament by the Apostles. Church history (from the time of the early church fathers until now) is interesting to read and see how doctrines came about and what reasoning people used to form those doctrines but the word of God is our basis for truth. Once you find the truth...buy it and sell it not.

I think that is Dan's underlying intent.
__________________




Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
False doctrines that will ........ in the Church Steve Epley Deep Waters 244 01-03-2019 05:56 PM
The Difference Between the PCI, PAJC, and the New Breed of Mush Nahum Fellowship Hall 60 10-04-2007 10:47 PM
John 3: The Difference between PCI and PAJC on New Birth SDG The D.A.'s Office 137 07-26-2007 11:30 AM
Homestead Heritage???? Steve Epley Fellowship Hall 14 06-21-2007 11:22 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.