Amish Donate Cash to School Gunman's Widow

ILG · #1 09-14-2007, 08:29 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20761374/?gt1=10357

This is such a wonderful thing that the Amish are doing. It truly shows Christian charity and forgiveness.

Now, on the flip side....the attitude of the Amish and many Christians are "It's God's will for my life. I must accept it and go on and forgive". This is good and great on one side of the coin. On the flip side, how does a Christian know when to not accept bad things as "God's will" and look for better choices for themselves? The reason I bring this up is because, in Amish life, basically anything is seen as "God's will". This is true in many lives of Christians in general.

rgcraig · #2 09-14-2007, 08:38 AM

That is a good thing and very Christian for sure!

I have always understood the difference to be that if I have given my life to God and I'm filled with his Spirit and walking daily with Him that the events that happen in my life are what they are.

If I make stupid choices, he's not going to override those, however, the beauty of it all to me is He's gonna be there to help me work through them.

#3 09-14-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20761374/?gt1=10357

This is such a wonderful thing that the Amish are doing. It truly shows Christian charity and forgiveness.

Now, on the flip side....the attitude of the Amish and many Christians are "It's God's will for my life. I must accept it and go on and forgive". This is good and great on one side of the coin. On the flip side, how does a Christian know when to not accept bad things as "God's will" and look for better choices for themselves? The reason I bring this up is because, in Amish life, basically anything is seen as "God's will". This is true in many lives of Christians in general.

That is the Amish way that does show a level of charity and forgiveness that ought to convict most of americanized Christendom.

You bring up an interesting and timeless question. Is is all God's will?

Certainly not. However, how we react to circumastance can be according to God's will.

Where the Amish, and others, take things too far is where they conclude everything as God's will and make few attempts to apply God's principles in order to effect circumstance.

My ex-Amish friends that are now emotional distrubed OPs

tell me that sickness is considered God's will and that is why they don't pray for healings. How can you pray against God's will in any circumstance if that circumstance be God's will? I believe that is the thinking. So if its all God's will, what is the point of reactive, effectual prayer? Maybe that is way the prayer books are so handy.

ILG · #4 09-14-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theophilus

That is the Amish way that does show a level of charity and forgiveness that ought to convict most of americanized Christendom.

You bring up an interesting and timeless question. Is is all God's will?

Certainly not. However, how we react to circumastance can be according to God's will.

Where the Amish, and others, take things too far is where they conclude everything as God's will and make few attempts to apply God's principles in order to effect circumstance.

My ex-Amish friends that are now emotional distrubed OPs

tell me that sickness is considered God's will and that is why they don't pray for healings. How can you pray against God's will in any circumstance if that circumstance be God's will? I believe that is the thinking. So if its all God's will, what is the point of reactive, effectual prayer? Maybe that is way the prayer books are so handy.

Right. How far should we intervene in the affairs of men? Just yesterday I was talking to someone on here who said that we should never have anything to do with TV because the liberals "own" TV and promote filth. I asked if we are not negligent by not being involved?? I asked if this person voted or if everything is just "God's will"?

So, how far do we take personal responsibility for the things in this life and trying to make change on a social, societal level?

Hoovie · #5 09-14-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20761374/?gt1=10357

This is such a wonderful thing that the Amish are doing. It truly shows Christian charity and forgiveness.

Now, on the flip side....the attitude of the Amish and many Christians are "It's God's will for my life. I must accept it and go on and forgive". This is good and great on one side of the coin. On the flip side, how does a Christian know when to not accept bad things as "God's will" and look for better choices for themselves? The reason I bring this up is because, in Amish life, basically anything is seen as "God's will". This is true in many lives of Christians in general.

Please provide an example of this so i can better understand the question.

ILG · #6 09-14-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Please provide an example of this so i can better understand the question.

For example, I have read that in certain cases where the Amish were being prosecuted for not sending their children to public school or refusing to put the orange triangles on their buggies that they do not fight back and just say that whatever happens is "God's will". They also do not vote. It is a very passive view of our place in the world, I suspect tied in somewhat with the non-resistance view. Many Christians also do this sort of thing in, say, not going to the doctor because they believe God will simply heal them if He wants to. This type of thinking spans all denominations as there are more and less progressive people in every denomination. But, when does a passive view mean avoidance of responsibility? And, on the flip side, when does a very active stand mean a refusal to trust in God's will?

Hoovie · #7 09-14-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theophilus

That is the Amish way that does show a level of charity and forgiveness that ought to convict most of americanized Christendom.

You bring up an interesting and timeless question. Is is all God's will?

Certainly not. However, how we react to circumastance can be according to God's will.

Where the Amish, and others, take things too far is where they conclude everything as God's will and make few attempts to apply God's principles in order to effect circumstance.

My ex-Amish friends that are now emotional distrubed OPs

tell me that sickness is considered God's will and that is why they don't pray for healings. How can you pray against God's will in any circumstance if that circumstance be God's will? I believe that is the thinking. So if its all God's will, what is the point of reactive, effectual prayer? Maybe that is way the prayer books are so handy.

As one that was raised Old Order Mennonite, I agree, the Amish and OOM often see illness and death as the will of God. I do know that the elders do pray and annoint for physical healing from time to time, but it does not seem to be standard par.

Not that we should choose between extremes.... But I find the idea that we decide for God what is his will, or the idea that we go about cursing and rebuking devils of sickness even less appealing than the former position.

Blessings, SH

Hoovie · #8 09-14-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG

For example, I have read that in certain cases where the Amish were being prosecuted for not sending their children to public school or refusing to put the orange triangles on their buggies that they do not fight back and just say that whatever happens is "God's will". They also do not vote. It is a very passive view of our place in the world, I suspect tied in somewhat with the non-resistance view. Many Christians also do this sort of thing in, say, not going to the doctor because they believe God will simply heal them if He wants to. This type of thinking spans all denominations as there are more and less progressive people in every denomination. But, when does a passive view mean avoidance of responsibility? And, on the flip side, when does a very active stand mean a refusal to trust in God's will?

I see what you are saying. See my prior post to THEO.

As a sidenote; some Amish DO vote and they have also won some landmark legal cases in supreme court.

Newman · #9 09-14-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG

Many Christians also do this sort of thing in, say, not going to the doctor because they believe God will simply heal them if He wants to. This type of thinking spans all denominations as there are more and less progressive people in every denomination. But, when does a passive view mean avoidance of responsibility? And, on the flip side, when does a very active stand mean a refusal to trust in God's will?

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

And therein lies the dilema. How do we know when its time to be still and know that God is God? How do we know when its our turn to do our part and fight for every inch we take?

A church in Benjamin Franklin's day struggled with the idea of using a lightning rod on their building. Wouldn't God protect them? If not, wouldn't it be God's will if the church was struck?

Franklin pointed out to them that they built a roof to protect from rain. What was the difference?

Hoovie · #10 09-14-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

And therein lies the dilema. How do we know when its time to be still and know that God is God? How do we know when its our turn to do our part and fight for every inch we take?

A church in Benjamin Franklin's day struggled with the idea of using a lightning rod on their building. Wouldn't God protect them? If not, wouldn't it be God's will if the church was struck?

Franklin pointed out to them that they built a roof to protect from rain. What was the difference?

Now, hundreds of years later, there is still no agreement concerning the effectiveness of lightning rods.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010824.html