Accountability and Submission

[Rhoni]

Garfield
Borat - UPC's Answer to the TV Reporter Join Date: Feb 2007


Accountability only works as long as the person is submitted to those he is accountable.

This statement made by Garfield on the accountability thread poses a question that I would like some feedback on...

Just what does SUBMISSION mean to you? In the past, I have known it to mean unconditional obedience to the Pastor/leadership without question or perceived ability or desire to be involved in this area of 'helps'.

The statement made...means different things to different people. Submission is so subjective to each person individually...how can it be measured?

Food for thought...
Rhoni

[rgcraig]

I like to think of submission as being completly submitted to God! When you are completely given to Him, then everything else falls into line (or should if you keep your flesh submitted).

This was mentioned on the "I love you" thread.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I like to think of submission as being completly submitted to God! When you are completely given to Him, then everything else falls into line (or should if you keep your flesh submitted).

This was mentioned on the "I love you" thread.

Must have missed it...but regardless...I still say that Pastoral ideas of 'submission' is about them and not God. And one can be fully submitted to God and not willing to do everything asked of them in a particular assembly.

Blessings, Rhoni

[MissBrattified]

In the past, I have known it to mean unconditional obedience to the Pastor/leadership without question or perceived ability or desire to be involved in this area of 'helps'.

I believe submission to any leadership (within the church or home) always has two exceptions:

1. As long as submitting to the said leadership does not conflict with my obedience to God, e.g., cause me to disobey God in the process of obeying the leadership, and

2. As long as submitting does not cause me to violate my own personal convictions, which are part of my relationship with God. For clarification, personal convictions are not the same as personal preferences.

Other than those two exceptions, which in my experience, don't occur that often, then submission should be across-the-board, even when we disagree with the leader[s].

In my life, being submitted to God and His Word includes obeying God's commandment to submit to my elders and submit to my husband. Therefore my submission to them is ultimately submission to God.

In that light, my submission to leadership is a direct reflection of my submission to God since it is my firm belief that God has commanded me to submit to my elders and my husband.

Renda, I agree with you; when we submit to God, submission to elders and leaders and husband and whomever else just naturally falls into place. Christians are servants, ultimately, to God and others, and when we submit to God, serving others is not really much of a problem.

I would not agree that submission to anyone (but God) should ever be unconditional.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I believe submission to any leadership (within the church or home) always has two exceptions:

1. As long as submitting to the said leadership does not conflict with my obedience to God, e.g., cause me to disobey God in the process of obeying the leadership, and

2. As long as submitting does not cause me to violate my own personal convictions, which are part of my relationship with God. For clarification, personal convictions are not the same as personal preferences.

Other than those two exceptions, which in my experience, don't occur that often, then submission should be unconditional.

In my life, being submitted to God and His Word includes obeying God's commandment to submit to my elders and submit to my husband. Therefore my submission to them is ultimately submission to God.

In that light, my submission to leadership is a direct reflection of my submission to God since it is my firm belief that God has commanded me to submit to my elders and my husband.

Renda, I agree with you; when we submit to God, submission to elders and leaders and husband and whomever else just naturally falls into place. Christians are servants, ultimately, to God and others, and when we submit to God, serving others is not really much of a problem.

I would not agree that submission to anyone (but God) should ever be unconditional.

Miss B,

So you and I agree on the bolded but disagree on the other a bit. I agree that submission to my head/husband goes without saying but I do not think submission to everything the pastor wills is necessary, or of God. [Not talking about dress standards btw]

Blessings, Rhoni

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Miss B,

So you and I agree on the bolded but disagree on the other a bit. I agree that submission to my head/husband goes without saying but I do not think submission to everything the pastor wills is necessary, or of God. [Not talking about dress standards btw]

Blessings, Rhoni

Could you give some examples? I can't think of anything to be unsubmissive about, other than the exceptions I presented.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Miss B,

So you and I agree on the bolded but disagree on the other a bit. I agree that submission to my head/husband goes without saying but I do not think submission to everything the pastor wills is necessary, or of God. [Not talking about dress standards btw]

Blessings, Rhoni

See Miss Bratt's point 1 and 2.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Could you give some examples? I can't think of anything to be unsubmissive about, other than the exceptions I presented.

*bump* for Rhoni

[ManOfWord]

I don't think true submission can exist without trust. I trust the Lord because He has proven Himself to me.

People at NLC trust me as their pastor, with their finances not because I am their pastor and I demand it, but because I give them a full and open disclosure of the church's finances every year.

Trust doesn''t come cheap or by mandate or even by office. I have no problem submitting to folks I trust. I have even submitted to folks who were "hooligans" and heathens because it was the right thing to do. But when the stakes get high, and you want me to trust you, then there had better be a "track record."

MOW,

Your congregation submits to you, but in turn would you say you are submitted to them?