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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #1  
Old 07-08-2007, 07:33 AM
Bruce Klein
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UPCI History, Truth ?????????

Greetings to All,

I know little about Apostolic history. The following came by email from John Sims.

Is Brother Sims correct?


In Jesus,
Brother Bruce



His email read:



Catholic Church History = Compromise of truth.

PCI + PAJC = UPC

In the Beginning.

Just before the end of WWII the political leaders of two Jesus name organizations decided to explore the possibility of merging the two groups into one. One of these groups was called the Pentecostal Church International (PCI). The other was the Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ (PAJC).


The driving force behind the initial discussions was expansion and finances. The PCI at the time was very financially sound but was limited in ministers for missions. The PAJC had the ministry base to expand but did but did not have the financial base for mission operations.


On the surface a merger of this type would be a marriage made in heaven. Below the surface there was a major roadblock preventing a possible merger. The problem was both groups had two completely different plans of salvation.


PCI: This group believed the following. Full salvation takes place at Repentance where man receives Forgiveness & Remission of sins. The Blood is applied at Repentance where man is also Justified by faith without works and is fully saved. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a second work of grace and is not required for salvation since all believers are In-dwelt by the Spirit at Repentance.


In PCI theology Water Baptism was just an outward sign of the inner change and had no connection to salvation. This was due to the power of the Blood of Jesus Christ being applied at Repentance, which resulted in Justification and salvation. While a Holiness lifestyle was commanded by the word of God, it was not required for salvation.


PAJC: The PAJC taught Repentance is where a sinner dies, then must be Water Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost to be saved. The Blood is applied at Repentance, Water Baptism, and the Spirit Baptism. Forgiveness of sins takes place at Repentance and Remission of sins take place in Water Baptism. Ac 2:38 is where the Born Again of the Water & Spirit Salvation requirement takes place. Then, a Holy lifestyle is required for a Christian to be saved.


After much discussion and debate by the leaders of these two groups, a COMPROMISE was drawn up so a merger could take place and then the UPC was born. In this COMPROMISE both groups basically agreed to disagree, then join ranks for financial and expansion reasons.


Once uncovering these major differences in the plan of salvation between these two groups the author of All The Counsel of God came to the following conclusions.


Both the PCI & PAJC doctrinal positions had enough leaven (false doctrine) to leaven what little truth each proclaimed. The leaven each embraced as truth was either passed down by the different Trinity movements at the Azusa Street outpouring 1903-1906, or was a gross miss interpretation of key scriptures by key Jesus Name ministers. In most cases these early ministers had the anointing to preach but their knowledge of the Word of God and Christian history was very limited. It was and is today, this "Lack of Knowledge" and "False Doctrine" that will prevent the members of the PCI, PAJC, UPC, and all other Jesus Name groups from being saved.


As it turns out salvation cannot be received from man made organizations, groups, or movements, of like believers. Salvation only comes between the individual believer and his Saviour Jesus Christ. This salvation will be bases on 100% truth, not 99.9% or anything less. When the Lord wishes someone to be saved, he will send someone like a Peter to Cornelius, with the true plan of salvation.


The heart of the PAJC-PCI COMPROMISE, which came from The Devil, is contained in the official by-laws of the UPC and of course are hidden from the Blind Sheep of the UPC. The following by-law statements are at the core of this COMPROMISE.


UPC-By-laws: "We shall endeavor to keep the UNITY of the Spirit until we ALL come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing ALL brethren that THEY SHALL NOT CONTEND for their different views to the disunity of the body." (Apostolic truth cannot be contended for in the UPC because of this by-law statement.)


Jude 1:3-4
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should "earnestly contend" for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are "certain men" crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


UPC-By-laws: "Pardon and Forgiveness of sins is obtained by genuine repentance, a confessing and forsaking of sins. "We" are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Ro 5:1). (In Apostolic truth, Pardon and Forgiveness of sins does not take place at Repentance, they take place at Apostolic Water baptism. This truth makes the UPC COMPROMISE a strong delusion to believe a lie and be damned. Without Apostolic interpretation of who the "WE" are in this text, one will be deceived by Reformation interpretation and false leaven. The PCI claimed this to be salvation, the PAJC did not. The COMPROMISE just lets it hang without correct interpretation and the blind follow the blind.) John the Baptist preached repentance, Jesus proclaimed it, and the Apostles emphasized it to both the Jews and Gentiles.


What is missing in all of this SIN of COMPROMISE is true Apostolic teaching on the Born Again process, the process of salvation, the doctrines of the Blood, Water, and Spirit, the Foundation of Christ, Biblical Holiness, developing a Pure Heart, and the Bible codes of Apostolic interpretation.


Bottom Line: Any man made religious organization born by the spirit of compromise, this organization and its members will always compromise truth.


Why does the Bible say the righteous are scarcely saved? (One foot in hell, the big toe in heaven, so to speak.)


A. Any lack of truth will send one to hell as fast as the presence of any false doctrine.


99.9 % of truth is a false gospel.


Bishop John D. Sims
Apostolic Bible Center
abc238@verizon.net
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  #2  
Old 07-08-2007, 08:40 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Quote:
In most cases these early ministers had the anointing to preach but their knowledge of the Word of God and Christian history was very limited. It was and is today, this "Lack of Knowledge" and "False Doctrine" that will prevent the members of the PCI, PAJC, UPC, and all other Jesus Name groups from being saved.
So who is this Bishop Sims? Apparently a Trinitarian? No Jesus name groups can be saved?

Quote:
A. Any lack of truth will send one to hell as fast as the presence of any false doctrine.


99.9 % of truth is a false gospel.
Does this include any foundation doctrine? The second coming? The eternal judgment? I would certainly like to examine his statement of faith.
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:20 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
So who is this Bishop Sims? Apparently a Trinitarian? No Jesus name groups can be saved?



Does this include any foundation doctrine? The second coming? The eternal judgment? I would certainly like to examine his statement of faith.
Michael,

Sims is condemning the UPC.

He didn't state his doctrine clearly in this email. He only gave the reason why he thought the UPC is condemned. I think Sims (is an Apostolic) must either agree with the PCI or the PAJC salvational doctrine but not both. From what I can understand, I think he believes it's wrong that they merged to form the UPC since both groups were compromising their own brand of truth for unity.
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  #4  
Old 07-16-2007, 02:07 AM
Eliseus
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Brother Sims believes the UPC has been taken over by people who espouse incorrect salvation doctrine.

Brother Sims believes that the blood is applied in water baptism, and that the majority of the UPC has gone into error in teaching (as he supposes) that the blood is applied in the Holy Ghost baptism. He claims the lack of genuine revival and holiness in the UPC is because of this de-emphasising of water baptism.

I communicated with him by email several years ago. He was writing a book, but I lost contact with him.

He is definitely Oneness.
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2007, 05:19 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Somebody (don't remember who) said, "History is a fable agreed upon."

What we've heard as "history" is some times slanted and distorted.

I happen to be a "one-stepper" but the way the PCI and PAJC doctrines of salvation were presented in that article was an over simplification. Not all PCI folks were one-steppers. We don't really know how many were. Those figures have probably been exaggerated by some and minimized by others depending on what they wanted to get across.

I received an email from him also.
His identity is known by some on this board or maybe on GNC.
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2007, 01:17 AM
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Trouvere Trouvere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Michael,

Sims is condemning the UPC.

He didn't state his doctrine clearly in this email. He only gave the reason why he thought the UPC is condemned. I think Sims (is an Apostolic) must either agree with the PCI or the PAJC salvational doctrine but not both. From what I can understand, I think he believes it's wrong that they merged to form the UPC since both groups were compromising their own brand of truth for unity.
Hi sis
I would like to know what he really believes and why I sense such a bitterness/hardness in his article.Interesting than anyone would attack
any group who stands for One God,Jesus Name.I wonder what Jesus
thinks about it.
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  #7  
Old 07-17-2007, 01:37 AM
jwharv jwharv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trouvere View Post
Hi sis
I would like to know what he really believes and why I sense such a bitterness/hardness in his article.Interesting than anyone would attack
any group who stands for One God,Jesus Name.I wonder what Jesus
thinks about it.
If this is the same guy I use to get emails from, and I believe it is because it is the same name. He is EXTREMELY bitter. He has attacked many people in hate filled emails. I wouldn't trust anything in an email that came from him.
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  #8  
Old 07-17-2007, 06:57 AM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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I haven't seen anything quite as strong as jwharv describes but the sender is a fairly well known source of spam-like letters targeted at Apostolic sites and email boxes.

I'd take his stuff with a grain of salt, except I'm on a low sodium diet, so I won't take it at all.
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  #9  
Old 07-17-2007, 07:47 AM
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Trouvere Trouvere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
I haven't seen anything quite as strong as jwharv describes but the sender is a fairly well known source of spam-like letters targeted at Apostolic sites and email boxes.

I'd take his stuff with a grain of salt, except I'm on a low sodium diet, so I won't take it at all.
haha..I am keeping my email to myself and my study buddies.Forget that stuff.
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  #10  
Old 07-17-2007, 05:04 PM
Barb Barb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Somebody (don't remember who) said, "History is a fable agreed upon."

What we've heard as "history" is some times slanted and distorted.

I happen to be a "one-stepper" but the way the PCI and PAJC doctrines of salvation were presented in that article was an over simplification. Not all PCI folks were one-steppers. We don't really know how many were. Those figures have probably been exaggerated by some and minimized by others depending on what they wanted to get across.

I received an email from him also.
His identity is known by some on this board or maybe on GNC.
"One-steppers" as in regeneration at belief/repentance?! I thought that was PCI doctrine, the above followed with obedience in baptism and Spirit infilling.

Am I misinformed here, too?!
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