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06-22-2007, 07:51 PM
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Gen 3:22, Who are the US here?
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-22-2007, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:
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The same 'us' that confounded the languages.
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city Gen 11:7-8
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His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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06-22-2007, 08:10 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
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I believe that in Gen 3:22 and Isaiah 6:8 the "us" refers to YHWH and the angels. In Genesis 1:26, I'm not so sure. YHWH may have been talking to angels or to the Logos/Word/Memra/Ha-Kavod. If YHWH is Spirit, had a visible representation, and had emotions, it may be a reference to man as a trinity or triunity as spirit, body, and soul. And, yes, I would not rule out the "plural of majesty" either.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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06-22-2007, 08:35 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
I believe that in Gen 3:22 and Isaiah 6:8 the "us" refers to YHWH and the angels. In Genesis 1:26, I'm not so sure. YHWH may have been talking to angels or to the Logos/Word/Memra/Ha-Kavod. If YHWH is Spirit, had a visible representation, and had emotions, it may be a reference to man as a trinity or triunity as spirit, body, and soul. And, yes, I would not rule out the "plural of majesty" either. |
Where do we see an obvious instance of God conversing with His own word and not rather conversing THROUGH His own word?
I think they all refer to angels
BTW If God can say "go for us" when in fact He means Himself and yet refer to the angels, then that could happen in Gen 1:26
BTW if this verse I posted is angels, that shows angels have a similiar likeness to God
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-22-2007, 09:06 PM
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Registered Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Where do we see an obvious instance of God conversing with His own word and not rather conversing THROUGH His own word?
I think they all refer to angels
BTW If God can say "go for us" when in fact He means Himself and yet refer to the angels, then that could happen in Gen 1:26
BTW if this verse I posted is angels, that shows angels have a similiar likeness to God |
Prax,
Could it be a different meaning for 'us' in Gen 1:26 than in the other two passages in Genesis?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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06-22-2007, 09:08 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Prax,
Could it be a different meaning for 'us' in Gen 1:26 than in the other two passages in Genesis? |
why would it? Consider the other times...God is speaking and referring to someone other than Himself that appears to be angels.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-22-2007, 10:02 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
why would it? Consider the other times...God is speaking and referring to someone other than Himself that appears to be angels.
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But there are not other scriptures that say the angels had any part in creation..
an angel stood guard at the entrance of the garden of Eden, so I can see the angels taking a part in expelling man from the garden.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
And in confounding the languages, God said 'let us go down'. Maybe the angels helped with the scattering?
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city Gen 11:7-8
Could it be the someone other than himself is someone else who can create, scatter, expel? Nope, God made the worlds by himself, all alone.
Isa 44:24 ...I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Honestly, it's all conjecture whether it's angels or plural of majesty or foreknowledge. But fascintating conjecture. 
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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06-22-2007, 10:57 PM
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Oneness Pentecostal Preacher
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 258
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I don't think the angels had anything to do with it. Why would God elevate the angels to His level? I think this refers to the plurality in attributes that form the being we know as God.
Also, the Hebrew word yada used here means aquiring knowledge. The phrase "as one of us to know" is two words in the Hebrew. "echad yada". Which loosely translates to unity or a cardinal one to know or attain.
Based on this is how I come to my conclusion of a plurality of attributes. God is one, but He is composed of many, many attributes like the weaving together of hundreds of strands to form one unbreakable rope.
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06-22-2007, 11:59 PM
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KwaiQ
I don't think the angels had anything to do with it. Why would God elevate the angels to His level? I think this refers to the plurality in attributes that form the being we know as God.
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Jesus elevated his disciples to his level.
Matt 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Quote:
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Also, the Hebrew word yada used here means aquiring knowledge. The phrase "as one of us to know" is two words in the Hebrew. "echad yada". Which loosely translates to unity or a cardinal one to know or attain.
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I'm not sure I understand what your saying. Where does the word, us, come from if yada means aquiring knowledge and echad means one or unity?
Quote:
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Based on this is how I come to my conclusion of a plurality of attributes. God is one, but He is composed of many, many attributes like the weaving together of hundreds of strands to form one unbreakable rope.
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So you think God is speaking to his attibutes? That sounds stranger than speaking with your own counsel or thoughts.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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06-23-2007, 12:08 AM
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Oneness Pentecostal Preacher
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Jesus elevated his disciples to his level.
Matt 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
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Jesus the man sure, but not Jesus the Deity
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
I'm not sure I understand what your saying. Where does the word, us, come from if yada means aquiring knowledge and echad means one or unity?
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My point exactly. I'm not as knowledgable of Hebrew as I am of Greek, but I could not find one instance of the 'us' in the Hebrew.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
So you think God is speaking to his attibutes? That sounds stranger than speaking with your own counsel or thoughts.
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Strange, yes. But the only thing I could reasonably conclude after studying it out.
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