The Sovereignty of God:

[Aquila]

What do we mean when we say God is "sovereign"?

Is this sovereignty absolute?

Is this sovereignty limited?

Here are some Bible verses on God's sovereignty...

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.

Psalms 33:9 For he spake, and it was [done]; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Psalms 33:10-11 The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Psalms 62:11 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power [belongeth] unto God.

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof [is] of the LORD.

Proverbs 19:21 [There are] many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

Proverbs 20:12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

Proverbs 20:24 Man's goings [are] of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Isaiah 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, [so] shall it stand:

Isaiah 14:26-27 This [is] the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this [is] the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul [it]? and his hand [is] stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

Isaiah 43:13 Yea, before the day [was] I [am] he; and [there is] none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Romans 9:18-21 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

[Amanah]

We must stand upon the Word of God, and take the Word at face value
He isn't going to contradict his word.

John 1:14 - Jesus is the Word made flesh
Hebrews 6 - It is impossible for God to lie
Psalm 119:89 - God's Word is forever settled
Malachi 3:6 - God does not change

[RachelRose]

Good study Aquila. I love to capture your research and then reread them later because I can tell you place a lot of thought in them.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

We must stand upon the Word of God, and take the Word at face value
He isn't going to contradict his word.

John 1:14 - Jesus is the Word made flesh
Hebrews 6 - It is impossible for God to lie
Psalm 119:89 - God's Word is forever settled
Malachi 3:6 - God does not change

Amen. However, God's Word also declares that He retains all sovereignty. Therefore, should God act sovereignly in a manner that differs from our understanding of His Word, it isn't in contradiction to that Word.

For example, if a king sovereignly grants mercy to an individual predicated upon his sovereign will, it doesn't nullify the law of the land. Nor does it mean that anyone else is entitled to such mercy. The act doesn't create a new law, and yes, all are still obligated to follow the law of the land or face the penalty.

A modern example would be being pulled over for speeding. The officer has the authority to issue you a ticket, for you indeed broke the law. However, if the officer grants you a warning (also within his authority), it doesn't nullify the speed limit, change the law, or entitle the next driver to a warning. It was a sovereign act of mercy.

If God decides to act sovereignly in any manner, it is both within the Word that He can and will act sovereignly, and so it becomes entirely His prerogative. Who are we to charge Him if He chooses to have mercy on someone such as, John Wesley? This wouldn't nullify Acts 2:38. Nor would it establish another Gospel (for even God's sovereign act would be predicated upon the cross). Nor would this entitle anyone else outside of Acts 2:38 to mercy. It would be a single sovereign act of God. A God who is a just judge of all men. And so, should God choose to have mercy on one such as Wesley, it doesn't mean or imply that there is any assurance outside of Acts 2:38. It only means that God (who has the authority to do as He pleases) chose to have mercy.

With this in consideration, we do well not to judge all other believers as being hell bound if they didn't have the fullness of our understanding. And at the same time, it causes us to do well not to judge all other believers as being assured salvation who didn't have the fullness of our understanding. It releases their eternal destiny to be decided by God and God alone. And leaves us preaching only Acts 2:38 as a means to attain assurance of salvation.

[Esaias]

You confuse Sovereignty with arbitrarity and capriciousness.

[Aquila]

Here's an interesting example of God's sovereignty.

When speaking to the Pharisees Jesus mentions David and his men eating the showbread, which was only lawful for the priests to eat:

Matthew 12:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

What is most interesting to me is that both King Saul and King Uzziah were punished by God for acting as priests when in fact, they weren't. It is clear that God showed mercy on David in this situation. This would appear to place God's sovereign act of mercy concerning David's circumstance in contradiction to His own Law, which He had previously punished others for breaking. Would it not?

The point is, God and God alone maintains the sovereignty necessary to judge righteous judgment, even above and beyond what His Word requires or would allow otherwise.

Who can stand up and charge God for having mercy on such a violation of His Law, even after He had punished King Saul and King Uzziah for acting as priests when they weren't??? Who can stand and charge God for injustice with regards to His sovereign mercy bestowed upon David?

Romans 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You confuse Sovereignty with arbitrarity and capriciousness.

Or might you be mistaking arbitrariness and capriciousness with actual "sovereignty"?

A sovereign, such as God isn't bound by anything, or He isn't "sovereign". He isn't even subject to His own Law. For example, God states, "Thou shalt not kill." But God may freely kill anyone He chooses, even an entire nation's first born infants.

We often fail to realize, it is WE who are bound to not go above or beyond the Word of God. However, God can do all His pleasure. And since His Word states that He possesses such sovereignty, acting sovereignly in any circumstance or situation is never a violation of His Word.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Or might you be mistaking arbitrariness and capriciousness with actual "sovereignty"?

A sovereign, such as God isn't bound by anything, or He isn't "sovereign". He isn't even subject to His own Law. For example, God states, "Thou shalt not kill." But God may freely kill anyone He chooses, even an entire nation's first born infants.

We often fail to realize, it is WE who are bound to not go above or beyond the Word of God. However, God can do all His pleasure. And since His Word states that He possesses such sovereignty, acting sovereignly in any circumstance or situation is never a violation of His Word.

Sovereignty does not mean the sovereign isn't bound by his own law. What you are proposing results in this necessary conclusion: God could condemn anyone He chooses, even if they meet all the Scriptural requirements for salvation (no matter what you believe those requirements to be). And therefore, NOBODY CAN HAVE ANY ASSURANCE OF SALVATION, because NO MATTER WHAT, God could just "exercise His Sovereignty" and say "Too bad, I've sovereignly decided you don't get eternal life." And He could do that on judgment day, at the last minute. In fact, He could do it 10 million years AFTER judgment day. Think about that: you've been enjoying eternal life for 10 million years and then all of a sudden God decides Nope, you need to be toast.

Talk about a truly faith destroying doctrine there. Even most Calvinists don't go that far in assigning capriciousness to God. Yet you've done it without even blinking. And why?

In the political section you have argued most vociferously against theonomy, in favor of the rule and law of man. Man, of course, is in his natural state totally arbitrary and capricious. But as a proponent of the rule of man against God's true Sovereign right to rule and dictate law to man, you view God in your own likeness: an arbitrary and capricious tyrant who will do what He pleases WITHOUT REGARD TO HIS OWN STANDARD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

If God can dispense with His Word, then we have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to hang our faith on, we can't believe ANYTHING about God, it's all just wishful thinking. I am constantly stunned at the total lack of common sense and simple thinking skills that pervades the mind of Boobus Americanus.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sovereignty does not mean the sovereign isn't bound by his own law.

Sovereign means, sovereign, and all that implies. God isn't bound by His own law. God can kill as desired, in accordance to His plan. Man cannot. Many forget that the Law is for man, not God.

What you are proposing results in this necessary conclusion: God could condemn anyone He chooses, even if they meet all the Scriptural requirements for salvation (no matter what you believe those requirements to be). And therefore, NOBODY CAN HAVE ANY ASSURANCE OF SALVATION, because NO MATTER WHAT, God could just "exercise His Sovereignty" and say "Too bad, I've sovereignly decided you don't get eternal life." And He could do that on judgment day, at the last minute. In fact, He could do it 10 million years AFTER judgment day. Think about that: you've been enjoying eternal life for 10 million years and then all of a sudden God decides Nope, you need to be toast.

Here's the rub... we can only judge by outward appearance. We might "think" one has met all the requirements based on what "we see". But God alone judges if any soul has truly lived up to His desires in any and all contexts. God is no theologians lap dog. And God isn't a chained bear in His own circus.

However, sovereignty isn't in a vacuum. If one has obeyed the Word of the Lord in it's entirety, one can have assurance of salvation. The Scriptures are clear, NO ONE outside of Christ will be saved. Where questions come in are with regards to those who have obeyed only a portion of the Gospel due to circumstances not of their own making. It is easy for me to say, "They're lost." But, some doctrines (such as Calvinism) tend to make God a monster and do violence to His being a just God. It is important to note that "just" doesn't mean "fair". For what is "just" isn't always what's "fair". For example, a 16 year old girl attends an Apostolic church. She repents of her sins and is filled with the Holy Spirit. The pastor is out of town and so they schedule her to be water baptized the very next service when he will be able to perform the baptism. But she is killed by a drunk driver the night before the service. It would be easy for me to say, "Well, she wasn't baptized, she's burning in Hell next to Hitler now." But saying such a thing does violence to God's being a just God. She was in a state of obedience. She desired to obey and was planning on doing so. She was justified by faith at repentance and received regeneration through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. All she lacked was water baptism. Some positions would have God throw away this girl, whom He filled with His own Spirit, like she was trash for the eternal fire. Believing in God's sovereignty gives us peace, knowing that God can indeed save her soul, based on her state of obedience and true faith, even though she hadn't completed the entire program.

Many might say, "But she wasn't water baptized!" Oh, she wasn't? Why was Christ water baptized? That's easy, to fulfill on righteousness. But on whose behalf, His own or the elect? For the sake of the elect. You see, Christ is our atoning propitiation. His imputed righteousness comes by faith in justification through repentance. That righteousness includes... His obedience to baptism. God count's Christ's righteousness our own for the sake of the elect... and that includes His absolute sinful obedience, which includes His baptism. God is perfectly capable of looking to the finished work of Christ and sovereignly having mercy on behalf of Christ's righteous obedience, regardless of the 16 year old girl's circumstance. Does this establish a rule? NO. It is a sovereign act of God's grace and mercy.

We see such sovereign acts of mercy in most points of view. For example, not even the most conservative on this issue would argue that God condemns the souls of the unborn who have yet to obey Acts 2:38. Nor would they argue that God condemns the souls of the MRDD who have yet to understand and obey Acts 2:38. Though Scripture doesn't address these circumstance, we expect God's sovereign grace to act on their behalf for the sake of His own righteousness.

Sovereignty preserves the integrity of a righteous, holy, just, and compassionate God. For mercy, by nature, can only be given to one who is undeserving. And if God has mercy, it is clear that the object of His mercy is undeserving by definition. And so, any exception established through sovereign mercy affirms the rule.

Talk about a truly faith destroying doctrine there. Even most Calvinists don't go that far in assigning capriciousness to God. Yet you've done it without even blinking. And why?

Again, only a radical mischaracterization of divine sovereignty that doesn't take into account God's nature and God's Word could argue such.

In the political section you have argued most vociferously against theonomy, in favor of the rule and law of man. Man, of course, is in his natural state totally arbitrary and capricious. But as a proponent of the rule of man against God's true Sovereign right to rule and dictate law to man, you view God in your own likeness: an arbitrary and capricious tyrant who will do what He pleases WITHOUT REGARD TO HIS OWN STANDARD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Whose God would deep-fry a 16 year old repentant and Spirit filled girl who was killed the night before her scheduled water baptism? The answer to such a question will establish whose God is a tyrant.

If God can dispense with His Word, then we have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to hang our faith on, we can't believe ANYTHING about God, it's all just wishful thinking. I am constantly stunned at the total lack of common sense and simple thinking skills that pervades the mind of Boobus Americanus.

God's Word testifies to His absolute sovereignty. It also reveals the way we can be assured salvation. The notion that one must choose between God's absolute sovereignty and the Gospel is a false dichotomy. One can believe in both. In fact, one can take comfort in both. What God would paint Himself into a corner wherein He's forced to condemn a 16 year old girl to an eternal Hell after she had repented, been filled with the Spirit, and was seeking to obey... merely because Satan used a drunk driver to snuff out her life before she could part the water? Can you see your God. High upon on His judgment throne. A sobbing pleading 16 year old girl that He filled with His own Spirit, and God shaking His head,

"I'm so sorry Tabitha, you almost made it. But that drunk driver snatched your life and derailed what I intended. His free will and choice to drink and drive eliminated your chance at salvation. I know you were looking forward to your baptism. I'm truly sorry, but my hands are tied. Off you go now, I can't make any exceptions. I've kinda painted myself in a corner with that Acts 2:38 thing. Can someone please drag Tabitha to the flames now? She's clinging to the throne crying that she loved me and trusted me. Oh well, I kinda put myself in a bind on this one. Bye Tabitha!"

Like the God of Calvinism, a God who isn't truly sovereign and just is also a monster.

[Aquila]

I was once told, you truly realize who trusts God and who doesn't when you bring up God's sovereignty.