VP Debate

[n david]

I'm a little surprised no one has posted about the VP Debate last night.

I watched about 10 minutes of it before I had to turn it off. I'd like to try and watch the whole debate sometime this week.

My take from the little time I was able to watch it:

Tim Kaine:
The guy needed to drink some decaf. He was incredibly annoying. His constant interruptions were rude and off-putting and, IMO, by design. Anytime Pence started hammering Hillary, Kaine would interrupt and speak over him to where it was difficult to listen. Frank Luntz's debate group was overwhelmingly negative on Kaine.

Mike Pence:
As much as I disagree with his retreat on religious freedom and common core, the man is very likeable and was excellent in the debate, with only one exception. Trump needs to cancel everything from Friday night 'til the debate and do nothing but watch and listen to Pence debate. It's too bad Pence is the VP on the ticket.

Kaine acted like a drugged up fool, trying to cram as many insults and accusations as he could into each 2-minute period he was given. As a result, Kaine hopped from one topic to another and really muddled his message. It was a mess!

On the other hand, Pence was very calm, even-handed and the best part was how he looked at the camera most of the time when speaking; as though he was speaking directly to the television audience.

There was one thing Pence said which I did not like. "You whipped out that Mexican thing again." I didn't see this live, but read the multitude of tweets about this and watched a clip of it. I cringed. It was awful.

I get that it must be tiring for Pence to hear all these accusations against Trump. It's tiring hearing Hillary constantly go on and on about Trump's past statements. Unfortunately, it happened. Trump said some really stupid things. You can't put the toothpaste back in its container.

But for goodness sake, don't exacerbate the issue by belittling it. If nothing else, ignore it. "You whipped out that Mexican thing again" was a terrible response and really sullied what was a great night for Pence and the Trump ticket.

[Pressing-On]

As much as we hate to also see Hillary as president, her campaign came away with the salient points from last night's debate.

Yes, Kaine was obnoxious, but Pence lied quite a bit.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

As much as we hate to also see Hillary as president, her campaign came away with the salient points from last night's debate.

Yes, Kaine was obnoxious, but Pence lied quite a bit.

Ehhh. That ad is reaaaaalllly misleading. Really, really misleading and filled with lies.

All you Trump supporters take note, because this is a rare post! I'm about to defend your candidate.

FALSE Claim #1: Trump/Pence did NOT say Putin was a "Great" leader as Kaine and the ad claims. The ad clearly proves it is wrong by playing the clip of Trump/Pence saying Putin was a "Strong/er" leader (than obama). Great is not the same as strong. There is a difference.

FALSE Claim #2: Kaine/ad claims Trump "didn't know" Putin invaded Crimea. They play an ad which shows Trump in an interview saying that "He's [Putin's] not going to go into Ukraine." Again, it's a subtle twist of words and meanings; however, you cannot claim Trump "didn't know Putin invaded Crimea" just because Trump said Putin wasn't going to go into Ukraine.

FALSE Claim #3: "They want to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people." Preface: I haven't heard most of Trump's speeches, so I cannot say with 100% certainty; however, I have seen Trump speak about his deportation force and never did he say what Kaine and this ad is claiming. The ad plays a really short clip of Trump saying "You're going to have a deportation force." (Side note: the look on Mika's face when Trump says that is hilarious!)

FALSE Claim #4: The ad tries to claim Pence was lying about never supporting legislation which would punish women by playing a clip of Chris "tingle leg" Matthews asking if women should be punished for having an abortion. I remember this. I posted about this. I criticized and knocked Trump for switching positions multiple times within 24 hours on this one issue. Again, the ad is trying to claim Pence is lying, but Pence cannot be lying as he's making a current statement: "Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that punished women." It's more subtle spin meant to take a statement and twist its meaning. And it's a blatant lie.

Claim #5 is true. Trump did say Japan and Saudi Arabia and others should have nuclear weapons.

Claim #6 is mostly true: "Donald Trump said keep them out if they're Muslim." While Trump didn't say those exact words, he did propose a temporary ban on Muslims. He also appears to have changed the policy a bit, by banning Muslims from countries which support terror.

So 4 of the 6 are completely wrong. It's ironic that an ad meant to point out the lies of Pence was so misleading and filled with lies itself.

PO, I'm a little surprised that you would use this ad to claim Pence lied. I don't support Trump, but it's incredibly easy and clear to see this ad is rife with misleading claims and lies.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

Ehhh. That ad is reaaaaalllly misleading. Really, really misleading and filled with lies.

Please, I'm not an idiot.

All you Trump supporters take note, because this is a rare post! I'm about to defend your candidate.

Okay....

FALSE Claim #1: Trump/Pence did NOT say Putin was a "Great" leader as Kaine and the ad claims. The ad clearly proves it is wrong by playing the clip of Trump/Pence saying Putin was a "Strong/er" leader (than obama). Great is not the same as strong. There is a difference.

TRUMP: "If he says great things about me, I’m going to say great things about him. I’ve already said he is very much of a leader. The man has very strong control of his country."

Yes, Putin controls dissidents by jailing and/or murdering them. Does Trump plan to emulate this leader? This was the actual point of the controversy with Trump's comments.

FALSE Claim #2: Kaine/ad claims Trump "didn't know" Putin invaded Crimea. They play an ad which shows Trump in an interview saying that "He's [Putin's] not going to go into Ukraine." Again, it's a subtle twist of words and meanings; however, you cannot claim Trump "didn't know Putin invaded Crimea" just because Trump said Putin wasn't going to go into Ukraine.

Seemed pretty plain to me when talking to George Stephanopoulos, who reminded Trump that Russia has already annexed the Crimea in 2014 along with other eastern parts of the Ukraine:

"Well, look, you know, I have my own ideas. He's not going into Ukraine, OK? Just so you understand. He's not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down and you can put it down, you can take it anywhere you want."

FALSE Claim #3: "They want to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people." Preface: I haven't heard most of Trump's speeches, so I cannot say with 100% certainty; however, I have seen Trump speak about his deportation force and never did he say what Kaine and this ad is claiming. The ad plays a really short clip of Trump saying "You're going to have a deportation force." (Side note: the look on Mika's face when Trump says that is hilarious!)

Remember Eisenhower's Operation Wetback. that Trump appears to agree with, and his interview with Chuck Todd? Trump has since taken on Ted Cruz's illegal immigration plan which is much more sensible - the same plan that Pence referred to in the debate last night:

“Let me just tell you that Dwight Eisenhower, good president, great president, people liked him.‘I like Ike,' right? The expression. ‘I like Ike.’ Moved a 1.5 million illegal immigrants out of this country, moved them just beyond the border. They came back. Moved them again beyond the border, they came back. Didn’t like it. Moved them way south. They never came back.”

TODD: You're going to split up families. You're going to deport children?

TRUMP: Chuck — no, no. No, we're going to keep the families together. We have to keep the families together.

TODD: But you're going to kick them out?

TRUMP: They have to go.

TODD: What if they have no place to go?

TRUMP: We will work with them. They have to go. Chuck, we either have a country or we don't have a country. Either we have a country or not.

FALSE Claim #4: The ad tries to claim Pence was lying about never supporting legislation which would punish women by playing a clip of Chris "tingle leg" Matthews asking if women should be punished for having an abortion. I remember this. I posted about this. I criticized and knocked Trump for switching positions multiple times within 24 hours on this one issue. Again, the ad is trying to claim Pence is lying, but Pence cannot be lying as he's making a current statement: "Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that punished women." It's more subtle spin meant to take a statement and twist its meaning. And it's a blatant lie.

Good grief! Are you serious? LOL! The only spin is coming from you.

Trump: “There has to be some form of punishment."

Matthew: “For the woman?”

Trump: “Yeah."

Claim #5 is true. Trump did say Japan and Saudi Arabia and others should have nuclear weapons.

Good on you.

Claim #6 is mostly true: "Donald Trump said keep them out if they're Muslim." While Trump didn't say those exact words, he did propose a temporary ban on Muslims. He also appears to have changed the policy a bit, by banning Muslims from countries which support terror.

“It is obvious to anybody the hatred [among Muslims] is beyond comprehension,” Mr. Trump said. “Where this hatred comes from and why, we will have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life. The ban would be intact until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

Then he moves to Ted Cruz's plan to stop immigration from countries sponsoring terror.

So 4 of the 6 are completely wrong. It's ironic that an ad meant to point out the lies of Pence was so misleading and filled with lies itself.

PO, I'm a little surprised that you would use this ad to claim Pence lied. I don't support Trump, but it's incredibly easy and clear to see this ad is rife with misleading claims and lies.

It's incredibly easy to see that it is true, as you say, that you don't listen to all of his speeches. Thanks for trying.

#NeverTrump

[Pressing-On]

The best part came after the debate when the Corleone, er Trump family member Eric stated that "Pence represented 'our' family well."

Guess what, Eric. No one is electing you for anything.

And please note that if Trump is elected, Ivanka will be the real first lady.

More horrible, terrible election in history.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Please, I'm not an idiot.

I don't believe you are, nor did I say you were.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

TRUMP: "If he says great things about me, I’m going to say great things about him. I’ve already said he is very much of a leader. The man has very strong control of his country."

Yes, Putin controls dissidents by jailing and/or murdering them. Does Trump plan to emulate this leader? This was the actual point of the controversy with Trump's comments.

"Great things" is not the same as calling Putin "great." Look, we agree in that Trump has a terrible, awful, no good, horrible attraction to dictators and tyrants. But it is untrue that Trump said Putin was a "great leader," as Kaine falsely claimed.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Seemed pretty plain to me when talking to George Stephanopoulos, who reminded Trump that Russia has already annexed the Crimea in 2014 along with other eastern parts of the Ukraine:

"Well, look, you know, I have my own ideas. He's not going into Ukraine, OK? Just so you understand. He's not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down and you can put it down, you can take it anywhere you want."

I took it as Trump believing Crimea has been annexed by Russia and is no longer Ukraine, and that Russia will not invade the main country of Ukraine. I'll spare the history lesson on Crimea, only to state it was Russian territory up until 1991 when it became split between Russia and Ukraine. For that reason, I don't consider Russia's annexation of Crimea an invasion of Ukraine. And also for that reason, Trump has so far been correct in that Putin has not invaded the country of Ukraine.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Remember Eisenhower's Operation Wetback. that Trump appears to agree with, and his interview with Chuck Todd? Trump has since taken on Ted Cruz's illegal immigration plan which is much more sensible - the same plan that Pence referred to in the debate last night:

Again, what Kaine claimed is not what Trump has said. Please post the source and quote where Trump said he would go house to house, school to school, business to business. Yes, Trump mentioned a deportation force and kicking families out of the country, but nowhere have I found any mention by Trump of going house to house, school to school and business to business. That's fear-mongering of the worst kind.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Good grief! Are you serious? LOL! The only spin is coming from you.

Trump: “There has to be some form of punishment."

Matthew: “For the woman?”

Trump: “Yeah."

I'm well aware of that statement, PO. I made quite a few posts about that statement. There were two or three "clarifications" made after that statement, which is what we both - you and I - knocked Trump over. However, the ad is very misleading. Pence said "Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that punished women." Would never. Pence did not say that Trump has never said he wouldn't punish women. He said they would never support (future tense) legislation that punished women. To use that quote is to completely take what Pence said out of context.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

“It is obvious to anybody the hatred [among Muslims] is beyond comprehension,” Mr. Trump said. “Where this hatred comes from and why, we will have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life. The ban would be intact until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

Then he moves to Ted Cruz's plan to stop immigration from countries sponsoring terror.

I agree, which is why I said the ad was mostly true. Again, it's semantics with what they claim he said. But the point of the claim is correct.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

It's incredibly easy to see that it is true, as you say, that you don't listen to all of his speeches. Thanks for trying.

#NeverTrump

I doubt you've watched many of his speeches, either.

Do you write upset posts at Cruz, now that he's made FB posts praising Pence's and Trump's debate performance?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

More horrible, terrible election in history.

That, it is. Two awful candidates and a birdbrain running as a libertarian.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by n david

That, it is. Two awful candidates and a birdbrain running as a libertarian.

You forgot about the Green Party candidate.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Jito463

You forgot about the Green Party candidate.

I had an Aleppo moment.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

I had an Aleppo moment.

What difference does it make?