Salvation, Pt. 2

[RonMurray]

Now I'll talk about repentance and baptism together.

Mark 1:4, says, "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins", and in Luke 24:47, Jesus says that "repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations".

We can see in Mark 1:4 that baptism is for the remission of sins, and is connected with repentance. So remission of sins in Luke 24:47 is referring to baptism, it's referring to remission of sins in baptism. We have seen that forgiveness comes with repentance. And in Acts 22:16, Ananias told Paul, "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord". So repentance and baptism both work together for both forgiveness and for washing away of sins. So it's a two step process, our sins are forgiven and covered by the blood of Jesus in repentance, and then they are washed away in baptism. But for those who thought our sins are forgiven and washed away just by believing and confessing Jesus, or forgiven and washed away both in repentance, this may be confusing to them. I was confused about it, too, for years until I found the answers I was looking for in certain verses.

Romans 4:7 says, "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered". It doesn't says forgiven and washed, it says forgiven and covered. So the Bible tells us that we can have our sins forgiven and covered, but not have them washed away. Forgiveness and covering of sins and washing away of sins are two different things.

But doesn't the Bible tell us that our sins are washed away by the blood of Jesus? Yes, it does. In Revelation 1:5, it says, "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood".

But 1 Peter 3:21 also says that "baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". It says that baptism also now saves us. And it says that baptism does put away the filth of the flesh, sins, but points out that it's not just that, but to have a good consience toward God.

Hebrews 9:14, says, "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?". And Hebrews 10:22, says, "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water".

So blood and water both work together in baptism to remit sin, and gives us a clean conscience before God. The blood of Jesus purges our heart, taking away the sins in our heart and in our conscience. And baptism washes away the outward sins of our flesh. So we are cleansed both inside and outside. And this is done in baptism.

Colossians 2:11 - 15, it says:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

This tells us that baptism is a spiritual circumcision, it's the New Testament circumcision. The message of Acts 2:38 is the new covenant, and baptism is the circumcision of that covenant. Where our sins are taken away, cut away, and nailed to the cross. So our sins are they forgiven and covered by the blood in repentance, but they are taken away and nailed to the cross in baptism.

That's why in John 20:23, Jesus says, "whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained". Jesus is referring to remission of sins in baptism. What He's saying, is that anyone who's baptized will have their sins remitted (taking into account that they have believed and repented), but anyone who's not baptized will not have their sins remitted, their sins will be retained, or remain.

The story in Exodus is a good example of how blood and water both work together in baptism for the remission of sins. The blood was applied to houses of each believer. But they still had to leave Egypt and go through the Red Sea. Likewise, a believer under the New Testament will have their sins forgiven and covered by the blood of Jesus in repentance, but they aren't washed away yet. They still have to be baptized. And we can see the blood that was applied working together with the water of baptism to wash away our sins.

1 John 5:8, said, "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one". Now watch this. 2 Corinthians 13:1 says that "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established". The blood of Jesus itself, being one witness in earth, covers our sins in repentamce. But when we're baptized, then water is applied to our life and bears witness together with the blood, making two witnesses, and our sins are washed away. And we are sanctified by the Holy Spirit. And together with the Holy Spirit, they all three bear witness together that we have believed and have been given eternal life.

And speaking of sanctified, 1 Corinthians 6:11 is another verse that shows three effects and benefits of repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit. It says, "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God".

We are justified when we turn to God in repentance, being forgiven and having the blood of Jesus applied to our life, being justified and made righteous by Him. And we are washed in baptism. And we are sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
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[Esaias]

Forgiveness of sins and remission of sins are the same thing. Baptism is not circumcision, either.

You're on the right track, though.

[RonMurray]

Remission of sins has more meaning to it in reference to baptism than is translated, because we see in scripture that sins are forgiven in repentance, and washed away in baptism. And Jesus said, "whose soever sins ye remit". This is referring to baptism. Because man can't forgive sins, only God can. But man can baptize another. And then in baptism, God can remit their sins. So forgiveness and remission aren't actually the same thing.

By using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see the meaning of remission of sins as it applies to baptism. So they both work together for both forgiveness and washing away of sins. And in Colossians chapter 2, it does tell us that baptism is circumcision, a spiritual circumcision. Our sins are cut away in baptism, like the flesh is cut away in the Old Testament circumcision.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Forgiveness of sins and remission of sins are the same thing. Baptism is not circumcision, either.

You're on the right track, though.

Of course water baptism is a spiritual circumcision. The Colossians passage fits in perfectly with the passage in Romans 6 in which Paul discusses water baptism as a baptism into death explaining metaphors in verses 4-5 by verse 6 in that an actuality takes place at water baptism, that is, the body of sin is destroyed. How does this happen? "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:".

[RonMurray]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Of course water baptism is a spiritual circumcision. The Colossians passage fits in perfectly with the passage in Romans 6 in which Paul discusses water baptism as a baptism into death explaining metaphors in verses 4-5 by verse 6 in that an actuality takes place at water baptism, that is, the body of sin is destroyed. How does this happen? "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:".

That was a good connection to Romans 6:6, "that the body of sin might be destroyed". Thank You.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Of course water baptism is a spiritual circumcision. The Colossians passage fits in perfectly with the passage in Romans 6 in which Paul discusses water baptism as a baptism into death explaining metaphors in verses 4-5 by verse 6 in that an actuality takes place at water baptism, that is, the body of sin is destroyed. How does this happen? "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:".

Circumcision was the sign of the covenant. The new covenant circumcision goes beyond baptism, it applies to repentance and the Holy Ghost as well. Being circumcised in the new covenant is about being born again and walking in obedience to Christ. It is the work of God through us and in us.

It is far more than just baptism.

[Esaias]

Remission of sins and forgiveness of sins are identical expressions in the Greek. There is no difference. Whenever you see 'for the remission of sins' you can just as accurately translate it as 'for the forgiveness of sins'. Anyone suggesting there is a difference between remission and forgiveness of sins is not using the words of the apostles or of Jesus, because those words were written in Greek. There is no Biblical distinction between forgiveness of sins and remission of sins.

[Esaias]

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(Colossians 2:11)

We are circumcised in Christ. It is only by being in Christ that we are circumcised with that spiritual new covenant circumcision.

Repentance and regeneration are necessary for being placed in Christ. Repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism are what puts us in Christ.

One cannot be in Christ apart from repentance, or water baptism, or Spirit baptism, it takes all three.

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Romans 2:25-29)

Paul states that Gentile believers who keep the righteousness of the law are reckoned by God as being 'circumcised'. Who keeps the righteousness of the law?

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
(Romans 8:3-9)

The righteousness of the law can only be fulfilled by those who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. This can only be truly done by those who HAVE the Spirit dwelling in them.

And thus is shown the connection between new covenant circumcision and the Holy Ghost, and between new covenant circumcision and obedience to God (implied in repentance from dead works and faith towards God).

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
(Galatians 6:15)

Physical circumcision or uncircumcision accomplishes nothing, what it is important is regeneration. And regeneration, becoming a new creature, requires repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism.

Circumcision represents the putting away of sin. How is that done?

First, it is something we do in repentance. We must put off the deeds of the flesh, the 'body of sin', we must turn from disobedience and unbelief and turn to God in faith and obedience.


It is also something that God does, He removes the stony heart from us, He delivers us from the power of sin by the power of the cross, He writes His laws into our hearts and minds.

It is something we do in baptism, whereby our sins are 'washed away' and the debt we owe (ie the guilt we have incurred) is remitted or forgiven or removed. We identify with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection by being baptised in His name. The body of sins is 'removed' by the decree of God in remitting our sins.

It is something God does when He puts His Spirit in us - He gives us a 'new heart', He 'purifies our heart', He puts His Spirit in us and causes us to walk in His statutes and commandments. The Spirit of God is said to be that by which we are 'sealed'. Circumcision was the 'seal' of the old covenant, and the Holy Ghost is said to be the seal of the new covenant saints.

Obedience to God's commandments was also the 'seal' or 'sign' of the old covenant, and it is the seal or sign of the new covenant as well (as shown by Paul's teaching in Romans, as well as by the symbolism in Revelation showing the 'servants of God being sealed in their foreheads').

In short, being born again, being a Christian, being a member of the new covenant, having repented and having been baptised in the Lord's name and having been filled with the Holy Ghost are all part of being 'circumcised' under the new covenant.

Attempting to dissect salvation into separate component arts, like repentance, faith, baptism, Spirit filling, holiness, sanctification, justification, etc etc leads to weird and quirky theology. The apostles had no problem 'conflating' all these things, obviously because they viewed salvation holistically, as a whole rather than as a collection of separate parts.

[Esaias]

Edit: I meant separate component parts not separate component arts.

[shazeep]

nice, E.